Hi Stefan, Konstantin, 

thanks a lot for your responses - they are very teaching and it is good to have them archived in the forum.
 
Konstantin, as Stefan already noticed, in this particular case the race condition is not really a concern.

Stefan, the ChatGPT-generated code snippet is awesome! (teach a man how to fish ...)

-- regards, Pasha

> Please run "git blame" to find out who added that check.

OK ok, was me. But actually 2003. I hope that this being more than 20y ago excuses me not remembering it ;-)

> I think this age check should be removed, but there must be *some* check for invalid/bogus timestamps. Or 
> not, we should check if MIDAS cares about timestamps at all, if ODB functions never use/look at timestamp, 
> maybe we are okey with bogus timestamps. They may look funny in the odb editor, but that's it.

I changed the code to only check for timestamps more than 1h in the future and then complain. This should
avoid glitches when switching daylight savings time.

Stefan

I guess you won't change your FPGA configuration just when you start a run, so I don't consider the race
condition very crucial (although KO is correct, it it there).

I guess rather than any pseudo code you want to see real working code (db_get_num_entries() does not exist!), right?

The easiest these day is to ask ChatGPT. MIDAS has been open source since a long time, so it has been used
to train modern Large Language Models. Attached is the result. Here is the direct link from where you can
copy the code:

https://chat.openai.com/share/d927c78d-9914-4413-ab5e-3b0e5d173132

Please note that you never can be 100% sure that the code from a LLM is correct, so always compile and debug it.
But nevertheless, it's always easier to start from some existing code, even if there is a danger that it's not perfect.

Best,
Stefan

MIDAS history is very simple:

from your frontend, your write your history data to ODB /eq/xxx/variables (see below)
mlogger has a hotlink to all /eq/*/variables and it will "see" the new data, write it to history file (see below)
you should see the history file grow using "ls"

history web page in your browser sends a "give me more data" JSON-RPC request to mhttpd
mhttpd looks at the history file, if there is new data (file got bigger) it send it to the web page
web page shows the new data.

where things usually go wrong:

- mlogger only looks for new history variables on startup and on begin-of-run. if you add new stuff in your frontend, you 
will not see it until you restart mlogger or start a new run.
- mlogger only looks at history data if corresponding "/eq/xxx/common/log history" is non-zero. for best effect, set it to 
"1". (or "0" to turn history off).
- history file is not growing, likely mlogger does not "see" your new data
- timestamps of stuff in /eq/xxx/variables are not getting updated, likely frontend is not writing them, and there is no 
new data for mlogger to "see" and write to file.

Frontend has several ways of writing to /eq/xxx/variables:

- write to ODB directly using ODB API db_set_data(), mvodb->Wx(), etc. this is the most foolproof method. use in 
conjunction with a printf() statement to make sure you actually do write to ODB. Sometimes your frontend event loop fails 
to run, a bug/failure that has nothing to do with midas history.

- generate a midas event and set the per-equipment "write event to ODB" flag (RO_ODB for mfe.c frontends), the mfe/tmfe 
framework will write event data to ODB, each data bank will be written to /eq/xxx/variables/BANKNAME, data type is taken 
from the event data bank definition.

This second method sometimes malfunctions, typical problems are missing RO_ODB in the equipment table, equipment table in 
ODB overwriting the value in source code (this is confusing in mfe.c frontends).

Least likely failure is "/eq/xxx/common/log history" set to bogus value. Normal values are 0=history disabled, 1=history 
enabled, other values are only needed if you do not want mlogger to record history as often as you generate it, i.e. you 
update /eq/xxx/variables every 1/sec, but you want mlogger to only record it 1/minute.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I notice your equipment tables do not have RO_ODB, so if you use the 2nd method, write history via event data banks, 
it will not work.


K.O.


> Dear MIDAS developers,
> 
> I'm trying to understand handling of the history (slow control) variables in MIDAS,
> and it seems that the behavior I'm observing is somewhat counterintuitive. 
> Most likely, I just do not understand the implemented logic.
> 
> As it it rather difficult to report on the behavior of the interactive program,
> I'll describe what I'm doing and illustrate the report with the series of attached 
> screenshots showing the history plots and the status of the run control at different 
> consecutive points in time.
> 
> Starting with the landscape:
> 
> - I'm running MIDAS, git commit=30a03c4c (the latest, as of today).
> 
> - I have built the midas/examples/slowcont frontend with the following modifications.
>   (the diffs are enclosed below):
>   
>   1) the frequency of the history updates is increased from 60sec/10sec to 6sec/1sec
>      and, in hope to have updates continuos, I replaced (RO_RUNNING | RO_TRANSITIONS)
>      with RO_ALWAYS.
> 
>   2) for convenience of debugging, midas/drivers/nulldrv.cxx is replaced with its clone,
>      which instead of returning zeroes in each channel, generates a sine curve:
> 
>                   V(t) = 100*sin(t/60)+10*channel
> 
> - an active channel in /Logger/History is chosen to be FILE
> 
> - /History/LoggerHistoryChannel is also set to FILE 
> 
> - I'm running mlogger and modified, as described, 'scfe' frontend from midas/examples/slowcont
> 
> - the attached history plots include three (0,4 and 7) HV:MEASURED channels
> 
> 
> Now, the observations:
> 
> 1) the history plots are updated only when a new run starts, no matter how hard
>    I'm trying to update them by clicking on various buttons.
> 
>    The attached screenshots show the timing sequence of the run control states
>    (with the times printed) and the corresponding history plots. 
> 
>    The "measured voltages" change only when the next run starts - the voltage graphs 
>    break only at the times corresponding to the vertical green lines.
> 
> 2) No matter for how long I wait within the run, the history updates are not happening.
> 
> 3) if the time difference between the two run starts gets too large,
>    the plotted time dependence starts getting discontinuities
> 
> 4) finally, if I switch the logging channel from FILE to MIDAS (activate the MIDAS
>    channel in /Logger/History and set /History/LoggerHistoryChannel to MIDAS),
>    the updates of the history plots simply stop.
> 
> MIDAS feels as a great DAQ framework, so I would appreciate any suggestion on 
> what I could be doing wrong. I'd also be happy to give a demo in real time 
> (via ZOOM/SKYPE etc).
> 
> -- much appreciate your time, thanks, regards, Pasha
>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> diff --git a/examples/slowcont/scfe.cxx b/examples/slowcont/scfe.cxx
> index 11f09042..c98d37e8 100644
> --- a/examples/slowcont/scfe.cxx
> +++ b/examples/slowcont/scfe.cxx
> @@ -24,9 +24,10 @@
>  #include "mfe.h"
>  #include "class/hv.h"
>  #include "class/multi.h"
> -#include "device/nulldev.h"
>  #include "bus/null.h"
>  
> +#include "nulldev.h"
> +
>  /*-- Globals -------------------------------------------------------*/
>  
>  /* The frontend name (client name) as seen by other MIDAS clients   */
> @@ -74,11 +75,11 @@ EQUIPMENT equipment[] = {
>       0,                         /* event source */
>       "FIXED",                   /* format */
>       TRUE,                      /* enabled */
> -     RO_RUNNING | RO_TRANSITIONS,        /* read when running and on transitions */
> -     60000,                     /* read every 60 sec */
> +     RO_ALWAYS,        /* read when running and on transitions */
> +     6000,                     /* read every 6 sec */
>       0,                         /* stop run after this event limit */
>       0,                         /* number of sub events */
> -     10000,                     /* log history at most every ten seconds */
> +     1000,                     /* log history at most every one second */
>       "", "", ""} ,
>      cd_hv_read,                 /* readout routine */
>      cd_hv,                      /* class driver main routine */
> @@ -93,8 +94,8 @@ EQUIPMENT equipment[] = {
>       0,                         /* event source */
>       "FIXED",                   /* format */
>       TRUE,                      /* enabled */
> -     RO_RUNNING | RO_TRANSITIONS,        /* read when running and on transitions */
> -     60000,                     /* read every 60 sec */
> +     RO_ALWAYS,        /* read when running and on transitions */
> +     6000,                     /* read every 6 sec */
>       0,                         /* stop run after this event limit */
>       0,                         /* number of sub events */
>       1,                         /* log history every event as often as it changes (max 1 Hz) */
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [test_001]$ diff ../midas/examples/slowcont/nulldev.cxx ../midas/drivers/device/nulldev.cxx 
> 13d12
> < #include <math.h>
> 150,154c149,150
> <    if (channel < info->num_channels) {
> <      // *pvalue = info->array[channel];
> <      time_t t = time(NULL);;
> <      *pvalue = 100*sin(M_PI*t/60)+10*channel;
> <    }
> ---
> >    if (channel < info->num_channels)
> >       *pvalue = info->array[channel];
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> I have implemented a number of slow control frontends which are directed to update the 
> history once in every 10 sec, and they do just that. 

I suggest that you switch from the old mfe.c frontend framework to the new tmfe framework that was 
designed to solve exactly this type of problems.

Look at .../midas/progs/tmfe_example*.cxx

You have a choice of:
- single threaded frontend, most robust, no race conditions, but readout is interrupted during 
begin/end of run.
- two-threaded frontend, your periodic equipments run in one thread, midas loop and rpc run in a 
different thread, you have to handle locking yourself.
- you can run each of your equipments in it's own thread without help from the framework, it is 
obvious how to do it if you can program c++ threads, "new std::thread" to create/start a thread, 
stop threads using a binary flag, thread->join() to reap them at the end (or thread sanitizer will 
complain).

K.O.

$ cat mhf_1697445335_20231016_run_transitions.dat
event name: [Run transitions], time [1697445335]
tag: tag: /DWORD 1 4 /timestamp
tag: tag: UINT32 1 4 State
tag: tag: UINT32 1 4 Run number
record size: 12, data offset: 1024
...

data is in fixed-length record format. from the file header, you read "record size" is 12 and data starts at offset 1024.

the 12 bytes of the data record are described by the tags:
4 bytes of timestamp (DWORD, unix time)
4 bytes of State (UINT32)
4 bytes of "Run number" (UINT32)

endianess is "local endian", which means "little endian" as we have no big-endian hardware anymore to test endian conversions.

file format is designed for reading using read() or mmap().

and you are right mhdump, does not work on these files, I guess I can write another utility that does what I just described and spews the numbers to stdout.

K.O.

> > Have you updated to the current midas version? This issue has been fixed a while ago. 
> 
> Hi Stefan, thanks a lot! I pulled from the head, and the scrolling works now. -- regards, Pasha

Right, I remember running into this problem, too.

If you have some ideas on how to better present 100500 history variables, please shout out!

K.O.

> This part of the system has been designed by KO, so he should reply here.

That's right. Some of this stuff is historical gibberish that is no longer needed 
for FILE and SQL histories.

/History/Events is needed to create persistent mapping between history event names 
and history event id's (at some point history event id was same equipment event 
id, with the obvious problems when equipment event ids are duplicated, reused, 
renamed, deleted).

/History/Tags was used by the history editor to speed up "give me all tag names 
for this history event name". With the "MIDAS" history storage this required 
reading a lot of data from disk. With the "FILE" history and cached ZFS SSD, disk 
access is much cheaper and caching history event names and tags in odb is no 
longer necessary.

/History/Tags should probably be removed (be check that nobody uses it first).

/History/Events has to remain as long as "MIDAS" history storage is still used.

K.O.

> I don't immediately see a reason for saying that if a DB key is older than 10 yrs, it may not be valid.
> 
> However, it would be worth learning what was the logic behind choosing 10 yrs as a threshold. 
> If 10 is just a more or less arbitrary number, changing 10 --> 100 seems to be the way to go.

Please run "git blame" to find out who added that check.

If I remember right, it was added to complain/correct dates in the future.

I think the oldest experiment at TRIUMF where we still can load an odb into current MIDAS is TWIST,
now about 25 years old. the purpose of loading odb would be to test the history function
to see if we can look at 10-15 year old histories. (TWIST history is in the latest FILE format,
so it will load).

I think this age check should be removed, but there must be *some* check for invalid/bogus timestamps. Or 
not, we should check if MIDAS cares about timestamps at all, if ODB functions never use/look at timestamp, 
maybe we are okey with bogus timestamps. They may look funny in the odb editor, but that's it.

K.O.

Very good question. It exposes a very nasty problem, the race condition between "ls" and "rm". While you are 
looping over directory entries, somebody else is completely permitted to remove one of the files (or add more 
files), making the output of "ls" incorrect (contains non-existant/removed files, does not contain newly added 
files). even the simple count of number of files can be wrong.

Exactly the same problem exists in ODB. As you loop over directory entries, some other ODB client can remove or 
add new entries.

To help with this, I considered adding an db_ls() function that would take the odb lock, atomically iterate over 
a directory and return an std::vector<std::string> with names of all entries. (current odb iterator returns ODB 
handles that may be invalid if corresponding entry was removed while we were iterating). Unfortunately the 
delete/add race condition remains, some returned entries may be invalid or missing.

For your specific application, you can swear that you will never add/delete files "at the wrong time", and you 
will not see this problem until one of your users writes a script that uses odbedit to add/remove subdirectory 
entries exactly at the wrong time. (you run your "ls" in the BeginRun() handler of your frontend, they run their 
"rm" from their's, so both run at the same time, a race condition.

Closer to your question, I think it is simplest to always iterate over the subdirectory, collect names of all 
entries, then work with them:

std::vector<std::string> names;
iterate over odb {
  names.push_back(name);
}
foreach (name in names)
  work_on(name);

instead of:

size_t n = db_get_num_entries();
for (size_t i=0; i<n; i++) {
   std::string name = sprintf("FPGA%d", i);
   work_on(name);
}

K.O.


> Dear MIDAS experts, 
> 
> - I have a detector configuration with a variable number of hardware components - FPGA's receiving data 
>   from the detector. They are described in ODB using a set of keys ranging 
>   from "/Detector/FPGAs/FPGA00" .... to "/Detector/FPGAs/FPGA68".
>   Each of "FPGAxx" corresponds to an ODB subdirectory containing parameters of a given FPGA. 
> 
>   The number of FPGAs in the detector configuration is variable - [independent] commissioning 
>   of different detector subsystems involves different number of FPGAs.
> 
>   In the beginning of the data taking one needs to loop over all of "FPGAxx", 
>   parse the information there and initialize the corresponding FPGAs.
> 
> The actual question sounds rather trivial - what is the best way to implement a loop over them? 
> 
> - it is certainly possible to have the number of FPGAs introduced as an additional configuration parameter, 
>   say, "/Detector/Number_of_FPGAs", and this is what I have resorted to right now.
> 
>   However, not only that loooks ugly, but it also opens a way to make a mistake 
>   and have the Number_of_FPGAs, introduced separately, different from the actual number 
>   of FPGA's in the detector configuration.
>  
> I therefore wonder if there could be a function, smth like 
> 
>     int db_get_n_keys(HNDLE hdb, HNDLE hKeyParent)
> 
> returning the number of ODB keys with a common parent, or, to put it simpler, 
> a number of ODB entries in a given subdirectory.
> 
> And if there were a better solution to the problem I'm dealing with, knowing it might be helpful 
> for more than one person - configuring detector readout may require to deal with a variable number 
> of very different parameters.
> 
> -- many thanks, regards, Pasha

Dear MIDAS experts, 

- I have a detector configuration with a variable number of hardware components - FPGA's receiving data 
  from the detector. They are described in ODB using a set of keys ranging 
  from "/Detector/FPGAs/FPGA00" .... to "/Detector/FPGAs/FPGA68".
  Each of "FPGAxx" corresponds to an ODB subdirectory containing parameters of a given FPGA. 

  The number of FPGAs in the detector configuration is variable - [independent] commissioning 
  of different detector subsystems involves different number of FPGAs.

  In the beginning of the data taking one needs to loop over all of "FPGAxx", 
  parse the information there and initialize the corresponding FPGAs.

The actual question sounds rather trivial - what is the best way to implement a loop over them? 

- it is certainly possible to have the number of FPGAs introduced as an additional configuration parameter, 
  say, "/Detector/Number_of_FPGAs", and this is what I have resorted to right now.

  However, not only that loooks ugly, but it also opens a way to make a mistake 
  and have the Number_of_FPGAs, introduced separately, different from the actual number 
  of FPGA's in the detector configuration.
 
I therefore wonder if there could be a function, smth like 

    int db_get_n_keys(HNDLE hdb, HNDLE hKeyParent)

returning the number of ODB keys with a common parent, or, to put it simpler, 
a number of ODB entries in a given subdirectory.

And if there were a better solution to the problem I'm dealing with, knowing it might be helpful 
for more than one person - configuring detector readout may require to deal with a variable number 
of very different parameters.

-- many thanks, regards, Pasha

I don't immediately see a reason for saying that if a DB key is older than 10 yrs, it may not be valid.

However, it would be worth learning what was the logic behind choosing 10 yrs as a threshold. 
If 10 is just a more or less arbitrary number, changing 10 --> 100 seems to be the way to go.

-- regards, Pasha 

Hi,

> What's the best way to make these messages go away? 
1.
> - Change the logic in db_validate_and_repair_key_wlocked() to not worry if keys are 10+ years old? 
2.
> - Write a script to "touch" all the old keys so they've been modified recently?
3.
> - Something else?

I wondered about this just under a year ago, and Konstantin forwarded my query here:
https://daq00.triumf.ca/elog-midas/Midas/2470

I am now of the opinion that 2 is not a good approach since it removes potentially
useful information.

I think some version of 1. is the correct choice. Whatever it fix is, I think it
should not care that timestamps of when variables are set are "old" (or at least
it should be user configurable via some odb setting).

Nick.

> What's the best way to make these messages go away? 
> - Change the logic in db_validate_and_repair_key_wlocked() to not worry if keys are 10+ years old? 
> - Write a script to "touch" all the old keys so they've been modified recently?
> - Something else?

The function db_validate_and_repair_key_wlocked() has been written by KO so he should reply here.

In my opinion, I would go with the first one. Changing the function is easier than to write a script
and teach everybody how to use it. This would be one more thing not to forget.

Now changing the function is not so obvious. We could extend the check to let's say 20 years, but
then we meet here again in ten years. Maybe the best choice would be to just check that the time
is not in the future.

Anyhow, most people don't realize, but we all will have fun on Jan 19, 2038, when the Unix time
overflows in 32-bit signed integers. I don't know if midas will be around by then (I will be 74 years),
but before that date one has to worry about many places in midas where we use Unix time. At that time
your date stamps from 2013 would be 25 years old, so we either remove the date check (just keep
the check of not being in the future), or extend it to 26 years.

Stefan

We have an experiment that's been running for a long time and has some ODB keys that haven't been touched in ages. Mostly related to features that we don't use like the elog and lazylogger, or things that don't change often (like the logger data directory).

When we start any program, we now got dozens of error messages in the log with lines like:
hkey 297088, path "/Elog/Display run number", invalid pkey->last_written time 1377040124

That timestamp is reasonable though, as the experiment was set up in 2013!

What's the best way to make these messages go away? 
- Change the logic in db_validate_and_repair_key_wlocked() to not worry if keys are 10+ years old? 
- Write a script to "touch" all the old keys so they've been modified recently?
- Something else?

I fixed both in the current version, so please give it a try.

Stefan

This part of the system has been designed by KO, so he should reply here.

Stefan

I have two more questions related to Units, Format for Equipment/Settings:

1) It looks as if I can have units per channel only for the Input/Output channels but not for Demand/Measured channels. 
For instance we do have HV FE which collect devices with kV and V demand settings. It looks like this is not possible (see attachment) to have per channel units.
Is this right, or do I miss something here?

2) This new functionality needs entries under /Equipment/<eq-name>/Settings. The class driver generates the necessary structures if they are missing at the startup
of the scfe. It would be nice that the new, additional entries would be generate as well: Editable, Unit Input, Unit Format, etc. Perhaps optionally, if a DD is providing it?

Best,
  Andreas 

Great! This is it.
Sorry that I missed it in the docu.

Best,
  Andreas

> Have you updated to the current midas version? This issue has been fixed a while ago. 

Hi Stefan, thanks a lot! I pulled from the head, and the scrolling works now. -- regards, Pasha