Dear all,
        I need to implement a DAQ sequence where a short run (100 events, which takes a couple of 
minutes) is taken every hour, with a long run in between two short runs. In the sequencer, I can do:

LOOP infinite

.... some ODB settings ....
     TRANSITION START
     WAIT events 100
     TRANSITION STOP

.... some ODB settings ....
     TRANSITION START
     WAIT seconds 3600
     TRANSITION STOP

ENDLOOP


I have two questions: 

- for the long run, I want to write on disk only a maximum number of events. I think I can suppress 
the event polling in the frontend, with an ODB query of the number of collected events. I'm 
wondering if there is a smarter way to do that. It is also ok if the run is stopped after a maximum 
number of events, but the subsequent short run should still start exactly after 1h from the previous 
short run. 

- with the script above, the real time lapse between the start of two short runs would depend on 
the duration of the short run itself. Is there a way to start the short run exactly 1 h after the starting 
of the previous short run?

Thank you in advance for your help,
              Francesco

> I see. Would this work as well? Instead of "make install" do this:
> su - root
> cd /opt
> git pull midas
> cd midas
> make
> add /opt/midas/linux/bin to your PATH. (is it time to get rid of the "linux" part from the default build path?!?)

Got it. I will do that in the future.

> Can you post your systemd unit file to this elog, others may find it useful.

[Unit]
Description=MIDAS data acquisition system
After=network.target
StartLimitIntervalSec=0

[Service]
Type=simple
Restart=always
RestartSec=3
User=neo
ExecStart=/opt/midas/bin/mhttpd -e WAGASCI --http 8081 --https 8444
Environment="MIDASSYS=/opt/midas" "MIDAS_EXPTAB=/home/neo/Code/WAGASCI/MIDAS/online/exptab" "MIDAS_EXPT_NAME=WAGASCI" 
"SVN_EDITOR=emacs -nw" "GIT_EDITOR=emacs -nw"
PassEnvironment=MIDASSYS MIDAS_EXPTAB MIDAS_EXPT_NAME SVN_EDITOR GIT_EDITOR

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target

> > Here is the list of mhttpd magic URLs.
> See additional magic URLs at the very bottom:

added redirect for ODB top level "root"

> > 
> > http "get" path:
> > 
> > handle_http_message()
> > handle_http_get()
> > ?mjsonrpc_schema -> serve mjsonrpc_get_schema() // JSON RPC Schema in JSON format
> > ?mjsonrpc_schema_text -> serve mjsonrpc_schema_to_text() // same, but human-readable
> > handle_decode_get()
> > decode_get()
> > interprete()
> > 
> > http "post" path:
> > 
> > handle_http_message()
> > handle_http_post()
> > ?mjsonrpc -> serve mjsonrpc_decode_post_data() // process RPC request
> > handle_decode_post()
> > decode_post()
> > - maybe decode file attachment
> > interprete()
> > 
> > interprete() path:
> > 
> > url contains favicon.{ico,png} -> send_icon()
> > url contains mhttpd.css -> send_css() (see ODB /Experiment/CSS File) // obsolete? see midas.css below
> > url ends with "mp3" -> send_resource(url) // alarm sound
> > url contains midas.js -> send_resource("midas.js")
> > url contains midas.css -> send_resource("midas.css")
> > url ... ditto mhttpd.js
> > url ... ditto obsolete.js
> > url ... ditto controls.js
> > cmd is "example" -> send_resource("example.html")
> > ?script -> cm_exec_script(), see ODB /Script/...
> > ?customscript -> same, see ODB /CustomScript/...
> > cmd is "start" -> send resource start.html
> > cmd is blank -> send resource status.html
> > cmd is "status" -> send resource status.html
> > cmd is "newODB" -> send resource "odb.html" // not used at the moment
> > cmd is "programs" -> programs.html
> > cmd is "alarms" -> alarms.html
> > cmd is "transition" -> transition.html
> > cmd is "messages" -> messages.html
> > cmd is "config" and url is not "HS/" -> config.html
> > cmd is "chat" -> chat.html
> > cmd is "buffers" -> buffers.html
> > // elog section
> > cmd is "Show elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "Query elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "New elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "Edit elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "Reply elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "Last elog" -> elog
> > cmd is "Submit Query" -> elog
> > // end of elog section
> > url is "spinning-wheel.gif" -> send_resource("spinning-wheel.gif")
> 
> // "new custom pages" moved to the bottom
> 
> > // section for old AJAX requests
> > cmd is "jset", "jget", etc -> javascript_commands()
> > // commented out: send_resource(command+".html") // if cmd is "start" will send start.html
> > cmd is "mscb" -> show_mscb_page()
> > cmd is "help" -> show_help_page()
> > cmd is "trigger" -> send RPC RPC_MANUAL_TRIG
> > cmd is "Next subrun" -> set ODB "/Logger/Next subrun" to TRUE
> > cmd is "cancel" -> redirect to getparam("redir")
> > cmd is "set" -> show_set_page() // set ODB value
> > cmd is "find" -> show_find_page()
> > cmd is "CNAF" or url is "CNAF" -> show_cnaf_page()
> > cmd is "elog" -> redirect to external ELOG or send_resource("elog_show.html")
> > cmd starts with "Elog last" -> send_resource("elog_query.html") // Elog last N days & co
> > cmd is "Create Elog from this page" -> redirect to "?cmd=new elog" // called from ODB editor
> > cmd is "Submit elog" -> submit_elog() // usually a POST request from the "elog_edit.html"
> > cmd is "elog_att" -> show_elog_attachment()
> > cmd is "accept" -> what does this do?!?
> > cmd is "eqtable" -> show_eqtable_path() // page showing equipment variables as a table ("slow control page")
> > // section for the sequencer
> > cmd is "sequencer" -> show_seq_page()
> > cmd is "start script" -> seq
> > cmd is "cancel script" -> seq
> > cmd is "load script" -> ...
> > cmd is "new script" -> ...
> > cmd is "save script" -> ...
> > cmd is "edit script" -> ...
> > cmd is "spause" -> ...
> > cmd is "sresume" -> ...
> > cmd is "stop immeditely" -> ...
> > cmd is "stop after current run" -> ...
> > cmd is "cancel stop after current run" -> ...
> > // end of sequencer
> > cmd is "odb" -> show_odb_page()
> 

if URL is "root", redirect to odb editor at the odb top level

> if ODB path URL exists, redirect to the odb editor with odb_path=URL // this restores the old URL scheme for the ODB editor
> 
> > cmd is "custom" -> show_custom_page()
> 
> odb entry exists "/Custom/Images/URL/Background" -> show_custom_gif(URL)
> odb entry exists "/Custom/URL" or "/Custom/URL&" or "/Custom/URL!" -> show_custom_page(URL)
> -- inside show_custom_page(URL):
> -- if URL contains ".gif" -> show_custom_gif(URL)
> -- if URL contains "." (i.e. "bnmr.css") -> show_custom_file(URL) -> send_file()
> -- otherwise process custom page (substitute <odb> tags, etc)
> 
> // section "new custom pages"
> if ODB /Custom exists,
> create blank ODB /Custom/Path if it does not exist yet
> if URL contains "/" or DIR_SEPARATOR, reject it with an error (prevent escape from file jail)
> if ODB /Custom/Path is not blank, concatenate value of ODB /CustomPath and the URL
> if this file exists, send_file() it.
> // end of "new custom pages" section
> 
> try send_resource(URL) // this serves "status.html" & co
> 
> > show_error()
> > 
> > K.O.
> 
> K.O.

> > The biggest problem so far we have seen is with some pages having incorrect form submission
> > settings - some forms use the wrong form "action" attribute, which worked before, we do not know
> > why, and definitely does not work now. This is not something that we can fix on the midas side.
> 
> Make sure you check any page which has a GIF image with bars and labels. I believe the new URL system has an issue there (mayby still an explicity /CS/... somewhere).
> 

Yes, we tried it with Suzannah and to my amazement it worked from the 1st try in her test experiment.

However the example in midas/examples/custom does not quite work, the gif file seems to be broken, displays as gibberish for me.

Also in the show_custom_page() I see code for "toggle" and "edit", but I have to example to test them.

K.O.

> > > Hmm... for most experiments, we do not "install" midas. I should probably remove the "install" target from the Makefile.
>
> install MIDAS in the /opt/midas folder to remain consistent with the other programs that we are using for 
> our experiment (Pyrame and Calicoes from LLR).

I see. Would this work as well? Instead of "make install" do this:
su - root
cd /opt
git pull midas
cd midas
make
add /opt/midas/linux/bin to your PATH. (is it time to get rid of the "linux" part from the default build path?!?)

> I am also using Linux systemd to enable mhttpd on startup

We use cron @reboot to start mhttpd.

But. CentOS7 systemd cron unit file has a bug and they run @reboot cron jobs before NIS and autofs is ready, see
http://www.triumf.info/wiki/DAQwiki/index.php/SLinstall#Enable_crontab_.40reboot_for_MIDAS_.28CentOS7.29

Can you post your systemd unit file to this elog, others may find it useful.

K.O.

> > Hmm... for most experiments, we do not "install" midas. I should probably remove the "install" target from the Makefile.
> 
> 
> ... and change the documentation accordingly (Suzannah!?). Installing midas these days does not really make sense, since normally only one 
> users uses it on a given machine.
> 
> Stefan

I understand. Anyway, I preferred to install MIDAS in the /opt/midas folder to remain consistent with the other programs that we are using for 
our experiment (Pyrame and Calicoes from LLR). I am also using Linux systemd to enable mhttpd on startup (and other handy features like auto-
restart after a crash) and unfortunally CentOS doesn't support to enable systemd units as a non-root user.
So in my particular case, perhaps it made some sense to install MIDAS in a folder other than the source code folder
Giorgio

> > Hmm... for most experiments, we do not "install" midas. I should probably remove the "install" target from the Makefile.
> 
> 
> ... and change the documentation accordingly (Suzannah!?). Installing midas these days does not really make sense, since normally only one 
> users uses it on a given machine.
> 
> Stefan

I understand. Anyway, I preferred to install MIDAS in the /opt/midas folder to be consistent with the other programs (Pyrame and Calicoes from LLR) that we are using for our experiment (they are all installed in the /opt folder). Moreover, I am using Linux systemd to enable mhttpd on startup (and other handy features like auto-restart after a crash). And quite unfortunately CentOS doesn't support to start systemd units as a non-root user.
So in my particular case, perhaps it made some sense to install MIDAS in a folder other than the source code folder.

Giorgio

> Here is the list of mhttpd magic URLs.

See additional magic URLs at the very bottom:

> 
> http "get" path:
> 
> handle_http_message()
> handle_http_get()
> ?mjsonrpc_schema -> serve mjsonrpc_get_schema() // JSON RPC Schema in JSON format
> ?mjsonrpc_schema_text -> serve mjsonrpc_schema_to_text() // same, but human-readable
> handle_decode_get()
> decode_get()
> interprete()
> 
> http "post" path:
> 
> handle_http_message()
> handle_http_post()
> ?mjsonrpc -> serve mjsonrpc_decode_post_data() // process RPC request
> handle_decode_post()
> decode_post()
> - maybe decode file attachment
> interprete()
> 
> interprete() path:
> 
> url contains favicon.{ico,png} -> send_icon()
> url contains mhttpd.css -> send_css() (see ODB /Experiment/CSS File) // obsolete? see midas.css below
> url ends with "mp3" -> send_resource(url) // alarm sound
> url contains midas.js -> send_resource("midas.js")
> url contains midas.css -> send_resource("midas.css")
> url ... ditto mhttpd.js
> url ... ditto obsolete.js
> url ... ditto controls.js
> cmd is "example" -> send_resource("example.html")
> ?script -> cm_exec_script(), see ODB /Script/...
> ?customscript -> same, see ODB /CustomScript/...
> cmd is "start" -> send resource start.html
> cmd is blank -> send resource status.html
> cmd is "status" -> send resource status.html
> cmd is "newODB" -> send resource "odb.html" // not used at the moment
> cmd is "programs" -> programs.html
> cmd is "alarms" -> alarms.html
> cmd is "transition" -> transition.html
> cmd is "messages" -> messages.html
> cmd is "config" and url is not "HS/" -> config.html
> cmd is "chat" -> chat.html
> cmd is "buffers" -> buffers.html
> // elog section
> cmd is "Show elog" -> elog
> cmd is "Query elog" -> elog
> cmd is "New elog" -> elog
> cmd is "Edit elog" -> elog
> cmd is "Reply elog" -> elog
> cmd is "Last elog" -> elog
> cmd is "Submit Query" -> elog
> // end of elog section
> url is "spinning-wheel.gif" -> send_resource("spinning-wheel.gif")

// "new custom pages" moved to the bottom

> // section for old AJAX requests
> cmd is "jset", "jget", etc -> javascript_commands()
> // commented out: send_resource(command+".html") // if cmd is "start" will send start.html
> cmd is "mscb" -> show_mscb_page()
> cmd is "help" -> show_help_page()
> cmd is "trigger" -> send RPC RPC_MANUAL_TRIG
> cmd is "Next subrun" -> set ODB "/Logger/Next subrun" to TRUE
> cmd is "cancel" -> redirect to getparam("redir")
> cmd is "set" -> show_set_page() // set ODB value
> cmd is "find" -> show_find_page()
> cmd is "CNAF" or url is "CNAF" -> show_cnaf_page()
> cmd is "elog" -> redirect to external ELOG or send_resource("elog_show.html")
> cmd starts with "Elog last" -> send_resource("elog_query.html") // Elog last N days & co
> cmd is "Create Elog from this page" -> redirect to "?cmd=new elog" // called from ODB editor
> cmd is "Submit elog" -> submit_elog() // usually a POST request from the "elog_edit.html"
> cmd is "elog_att" -> show_elog_attachment()
> cmd is "accept" -> what does this do?!?
> cmd is "eqtable" -> show_eqtable_path() // page showing equipment variables as a table ("slow control page")
> // section for the sequencer
> cmd is "sequencer" -> show_seq_page()
> cmd is "start script" -> seq
> cmd is "cancel script" -> seq
> cmd is "load script" -> ...
> cmd is "new script" -> ...
> cmd is "save script" -> ...
> cmd is "edit script" -> ...
> cmd is "spause" -> ...
> cmd is "sresume" -> ...
> cmd is "stop immeditely" -> ...
> cmd is "stop after current run" -> ...
> cmd is "cancel stop after current run" -> ...
> // end of sequencer
> cmd is "odb" -> show_odb_page()

if ODB path URL exists, redirect to the odb editor with odb_path=URL // this restores the old URL scheme for the ODB editor

> cmd is "custom" -> show_custom_page()

odb entry exists "/Custom/Images/URL/Background" -> show_custom_gif(URL)
odb entry exists "/Custom/URL" or "/Custom/URL&" or "/Custom/URL!" -> show_custom_page(URL)
-- inside show_custom_page(URL):
-- if URL contains ".gif" -> show_custom_gif(URL)
-- if URL contains "." (i.e. "bnmr.css") -> show_custom_file(URL) -> send_file()
-- otherwise process custom page (substitute <odb> tags, etc)

// section "new custom pages"
if ODB /Custom exists,
create blank ODB /Custom/Path if it does not exist yet
if URL contains "/" or DIR_SEPARATOR, reject it with an error (prevent escape from file jail)
if ODB /Custom/Path is not blank, concatenate value of ODB /CustomPath and the URL
if this file exists, send_file() it.
// end of "new custom pages" section

try send_resource(URL) // this serves "status.html" & co

> show_error()
> 
> K.O.

K.O.

> The biggest problem so far we have seen is with some pages having incorrect form submission
> settings - some forms use the wrong form "action" attribute, which worked before, we do not know
> why, and definitely does not work now. This is not something that we can fix on the midas side.

Make sure you check any page which has a GIF image with bars and labels. I believe the new URL system has an issue there (mayby still an explicity /CS/... somewhere).

Stefan

> 
> That sounds fine, as long as it is clearly documented.
> 

I am a true believer in the two-man rule. One person writes the code, another person
documents it - this keeps everything honest and ensures that at least one
person (the documenter) understands what is going on. (as the coder, I can easily
write documentation that nobody understands, or that is completely wrong).

> > Third, the /Custom/Path should really go away.
> Yes, I agree that /Custom/Path should go away.

/Custom/Path as a resource search path or
/Custom/Path that is prepended to file names of old-style custom pages?

The second use is safe and does not need to be removed.

The first use is now redundant - files are now also served through send_resource()
through the normal resource path, that includes ODB /Experiment/Resource
(something that has been there for a long time).

K.O.

> > We have several large installations at TRIUMF that use the old-style custom pages - MUSR, BNMR/BNQR, TITAN (and more?) -
> > none of these experiments are going away any time soon and none of these custom pages are rewriting themselves.
> 
> Then you have a problem. Last time I told you that the new URL scheme breaks parts of the custom pages, especially the ones containing GIF images with labels on it. You then said "these experiments have to bite the bullet and 
> change it", and I proceeded. Now you tell me that this will not happen. So please be aware that these experiments do have a problem and probably are stuck with an older midas version.
> 

Yes, there is a problem and some adjustment is needed.

I do not think the new URL scheme requires us to abandon existing experiments.

At this point I am trying to minimize the number of adjustments required, for example:

If we do not need to move files around (and create symlinks), it is good - so the old scheme of saving file names in ODB lives on
If we do not need to edit every file to adjust every URL, it is good - so now that http://blah/CS/custom_page is gone (no more "CS/"), http://blah/custom_page had to be implemented
If we do not need to replace all the ODB /Alias entries, http://blah/ODB_PATH now redirects to http://blah/?cmd=odb&odb_path=ODB_PATH and all the old aliases to ODB still work

I am going through these things as I discover them with Suzannah.

The biggest problem so far we have seen is with some pages having incorrect form submission
settings - some forms use the wrong form "action" attribute, which worked before, we do not know
why, and definitely does not work now. This is not something that we can fix on the midas side.

K.O.

I stop the discussion here because it goes in circles. We can't convince each others, so somebody has to give up, and that's me.

> We have several large installations at TRIUMF that use the old-style custom pages - MUSR, BNMR/BNQR, TITAN (and more?) -
> none of these experiments are going away any time soon and none of these custom pages are rewriting themselves.

Then you have a problem. Last time I told you that the new URL scheme breaks parts of the custom pages, especially the ones containing GIF images with labels on it. You then said "these experiments have to bite the bullet and 
change it", and I proceeded. Now you tell me that this will not happen. So please be aware that these experiments do have a problem and probably are stuck with an older midas version.

> > This area is much better protected than the ODB, since people have to physically log into 
> > a machine to change it.
> 
> Nope. You can create symlinks from mhttpd by putting running the "ln -s" command from ODB "/Programs/xxx/Start Command"

You can also set a start command "cat /etc/passwd | sendmail me@triumf.ca" and you get the password file ;-)

Stefan

> Just set 
> /Custom/Path = /./ 
> which is allowed right now and then access etc/passwd, which translates to /./etc/passwd and then you get the password file.

Nope. http://localhost:8080/etc/passwd yields this error regardless of the value of /Custom/Path: MIDAS error: Invalid custom file name 'etc/passwd' contains '/' or '/'

> We should make up our mind:
> 1) We trust each user who has access to mhttpd. The accessing /etc/passwd is not a problem and I don't understand all the fuzz we had recently. Why all the recent work?

Stefan, "/etc/passwd" is a stand-in for "$HOME/.ssh/id_rsa". Surely stealing the ssh keys is a very bad thing.

> 2) We do not trust users connected via mhttpd, but we trust users who can log in to the online machine.
> If we do not trust users having access to mhttpd, then it does not make sense in my mind to fix one hole and keep a few other open.
> You correctly mentioned the /Programs/xxx/Start command, and there are a few others, like executing scripts directly. Either we fix all (known) holes or we don't bother.

I see a distinction between accessing a magic URL (a read-only operation) and a targeted attack (editing odb, etc).

In the first case, it's a script-kiddie "let's try http:blah/etc/passwd, http:blah/../etc/passwd, etc, bingo!).

In the second case, if it's a targeted attack, forget about it. If an attacker wants in, they will get it. Have secure backups, etc.

Plus eventually we will restore the user access controls - read-only access, operator access (can start runs, edit history plots) and Q access. Only
this very last one would allow editing of ODB.

> 3) We do not trust users who can log in to the online machine, since they can just cat /etc/passwd. But then why give them access to the online machine?

ssh foo cat /etc/passwd is normal
http://foo/etc/passwd is not normal

> So which of the three options would you prefer?

I try to think simple:
if something worked yesterday and works today, let it be
if we add something new, it should not be obviously insecure

> 
> Thanks to the nice public discussion here on the forum (and I still think this is the correct way to discuss these things), all forum subscribers are now aware of several security holes.
> So either they are evil, then we have to fix all (known) holes. Or we trust  them, then we don't care.
> 

Here is the elephant in the room. mhttpd has never gone through a security audit. It's easy to find
security holes (buffer overflows) can be easily found by "grep sprintf".

To me, this means that access to mhttpd always must be password-protected.

Password protection requires https.

The built-in mongoose https server is as safe as the mongoose library (probably yes) and the openssl library (yes-ish, see openbsd libressl)

The external apache https takes a few minutes to setup, as the "industry standard", it is trusted to be safe.

>
> > Stefan, we already allow execution of arbitrary commands via ODB "/Programs/xxx/Start Command".
> This is on the same level as accessing /etc/passwd. So either we allow all of them or none of them. Something in between absolutely does not make sense to me.
>

Ok, we have identified our difference of opinion:

I think serving arbitrary files over http is a bad idea (on general principles)
and you think it is okey because there are other ways to get to those files.

Fair enough.

K.O.

P.S. Hmm... not fair enough.

I am now thinking about web-browser security -
suppose some kind of cross-site or cross-tab exploit comes out and suddenly
arbitrary web pages loaded from facebook.com (or worse) gain access
to the mhttpd web pages if both are open at the same time.

We may be still protected by obscurity and they presumably do not know how to change
things in odb, but I think it is a good idea to protect ourselves at least
against drive-by attacks (try http:blah/etc/passwd, try http:blah/../etc/passwd, etc,
replace /etc/passwd by some other secret file, try again - think  ssh keys, etc).

K.O.

> Hmm... for most experiments, we do not "install" midas. I should probably remove the "install" target from the Makefile.


... and change the documentation accordingly (Suzannah!?). Installing midas these days does not really make sense, since normally only one 
users uses it on a given machine.

Stefan

> > > - mhttpd cannot serve /etc/passwd by default as "/" is forbidden in file names added to /Custom/Path.
> > You do this with a simple
> > if (custom_path == "/")
> > which does work but does not cover cases such as
> > "/./"
> 
> Hmm... and this is just fine. Since I do not allow "/" in the file name, they can
> set the resource path to any alias for the root filesystem, but they cannot
> get to "/etc/passwd" unless they run mhttpd in /etc or set /Custom/Path to "/etc".

Just set 

/Custom/Path = /./ 

which is allowed right now and then access etc/passwd, which translates to /./etc/passwd and then you get the password file. 

We should make up our mind:

1) We trust each user who has access to mhttpd. The accessing /etc/passwd is not a problem and I don't understand all the fuzz we had recently. Why all the recent work?

2) We do not trust users connected via mhttpd, but we trust users who can log in to the online machine. If we do not trust users having access to mhttpd, then it does not make sense in my mind to fix one hole and keep a few other open. You correctly 
mentioned the /Programs/xxx/Start command, and there are a few others, like executing scripts directly. Either we fix all (known) holes or we don't bother.

3) We do not trust users who can log in to the online machine, since they can just cat /etc/passwd. But then why give them access to the online machine?

So which of the three options would you prefer?

 
> All these cases are not normal use of mhttpd, not "oops, I made a mistake"
> and not "I will kludge my paths just for today just for this one experiment". They
> have to make an explicit decision to break the security.

Accessing /etc/passwd is an explicit decision as well and does not come by "oops, I made a mistake"

> These days, I am thinking that we should not try to prevent all insecure uses of midas,
> but at least we should make the default configuration secure and disallow some of the more
> obviously insecure configurations (i.e. do not permit password protection without https).

Thanks to the nice public discussion here on the forum (and I still think this is the correct way to discuss these things), all forum subscribers are now aware of several security holes. So either they are evil, then we have to fix all (known) holes. Or we trust 
them, then we don't care.

> Stefan, we already allow execution of arbitrary commands via ODB "/Programs/xxx/Start Command".
> 
> So for all practical purposes, somebody with access to the mhttpd web pages also has shell access
> to the user account running mhttpd.

Agree. And this is on the same level as accessing /etc/passwd. So either we allow all of them or none of them. Something in between absolutely does not make sense to me.

To shorten the discussion: I think what we do right now does not make sense, but I do not insist of changing it. If people want it like that, fine with me. Just a waste of your time fixing the "/" path.

Stefan

> First, I did not propose to give up the /Custom tree in the ODB, sorry for the misunderstanding.
> We still need it in order to display the menu with the custom pages at the left side navigation bar.
> In principle all can stay like it is, except we remove /Custom/Path and rewrite the file server to restrict it only 
> to the two mentioned directories.
> 

We have several large installations at TRIUMF that use the old-style custom pages - MUSR, BNMR/BNQR, TITAN (and more?) -
none of these experiments are going away any time soon and none of these custom pages are rewriting themselves.

So, I think we are stuck with supporting old-style custom pages in the short and in the long term, unless we decide to abandon these existing users of MIDAS.

And the old-style custom pages come with the old-style scheme of keeping file names in ODB. Removing
it will require experiments to reorganize their filesystems (different custom pages may come from different
git repositories on different disks - not trivially placable all in the same directory).

Plus some people (including myself) like to have some things explicitly specified - I want to know that
this page loads this file without having to guess where in a search path it came from today.

>
> Thomas proposed a "deprecated" mhttpd command line option.
>

"deprecated" does not work.

"we removed it because it stopped working and we cannot fix it" works,
"do not use it for new experiments" works (until a user comes back with "but I really like this feature!")
"we will remove it at an unknown future date because we think nobody should use it" does not work.

>
> As an alternative, I propose to make a symbolic link from <exptab>/resources to where the old /Custom/Path was pointing 
> to. This should work as well, and we don't have to implement a parameter in mhttpd.
> 

All experiments at TRIUMF that use old-style custom pages do not use /Custom/Path. In the new scheme
of things, setting /Custom/Path to anything other than blank will break them.

>
> Third, the /Custom/Path should really go away.
>

For once, I agree. /Custom/Path did not exist and should not have been added.

> We are all concerned that people can read security critical files from the whole file system.

Only in the default configuration and in configurations that would realistically used by an experiment. This
excludes the case of "/Custom/Path" set to "/etc" - not the default and unlikely to be used by any experiment.

> To read those files, people have to access to mhttpd, so they have to know at least the authentication credentials to pass the Apache firewall in front of mhttpd or 
> whatever. This means they have access to the ODB, and then they can simply change /Custom/Path to "/" and voila - they have again access to /etc/passwd.

Nope. They have to set /Custom/Path to "/etc" or start mhttpd under "/etc" or point /Custom/Path to a symlink to /etc. (mhttpd will not serve "etc/passwd", "/" in the filename is not permitted).

> This is why I propose symbolic links on the file system.

Some people dislike symlinks.
Some filesystems do not implement symlinks. (should we prevent mhttpd from running on the ms-dos fat filesystem "just because"?)

> This area is much better protected than the ODB, since people have to physically log into 
> a machine to change it.

Nope. You can create symlinks from mhttpd by putting running the "ln -s" command from ODB "/Programs/xxx/Start Command"

K.O.

> First, I did not propose to give up the /Custom tree in the ODB, sorry for the misunderstanding. We still need it in order to display the menu with the custom pages at the left side navigation bar. In principle all can stay like it is, except we remove /Custom/Path and rewrite the file server to restrict it only 
> to the two mentioned directories.
> 
> Second, to keep the compatibility with running experiments, we have to make the move over as simply as possible. Thomas proposed a "deprecated" mhttpd command line option. As an alternative, I propose to make a symbolic link from <exptab>/resources to where the old /Custom/Path was pointing 
> to. This should work as well, and we don't have to implement a parameter in mhttpd.

That sounds fine, as long as it is clearly documented.

> Third, the /Custom/Path should really go away. We are all concerned that people can read security critical files from the whole file system. To read those files, people have to access to mhttpd, so they have to know at least the authentication credentials to pass the Apache firewall in front of mhttpd or 
> whatever. This means they have access to the ODB, and then they can simply change /Custom/Path to "/" and voila - they have again access to /etc/passwd. This is why I propose symbolic links on the file system. This area is much better protected than the ODB, since people have to physically log into 
> a machine to change it.

Yes, I agree that /Custom/Path should go away.

Cheers,
Thomas

> > - mhttpd cannot serve /etc/passwd by default as "/" is forbidden in file names added to /Custom/Path.
> You do this with a simple
> if (custom_path == "/")
> which does work but does not cover cases such as
> "/./"

Hmm... and this is just fine. Since I do not allow "/" in the file name, they can
set the resource path to any alias for the root filesystem, but they cannot
get to "/etc/passwd" unless they run mhttpd in /etc or set /Custom/Path to "/etc".

All these cases are not normal use of mhttpd, not "oops, I made a mistake"
and not "I will kludge my paths just for today just for this one experiment". They
have to make an explicit decision to break the security.

These days, I am thinking that we should not try to prevent all insecure uses of midas,
but at least we should make the default configuration secure and disallow some of the more
obviously insecure configurations (i.e. do not permit password protection without https).

Take the root password as an example. Empty root passwd is not permitted, but
root password set to "root" is allowed (some password tools may throw a warning).

>
> Still, in my opinion we should not have a path in the ODB. The custom path should be hard-wired and combined with symbolic links if necessary. The custom HTML pages under /Custom in the ODB have to be scanned for ".."s.
> 

Stefan, we already allow execution of arbitrary commands via ODB "/Programs/xxx/Start Command".

So for all practical purposes, somebody with access to the mhttpd web pages also has shell access
to the user account running mhttpd.

K.O.

> 
> PS other than the code peculiar to our experiment, I have made a little modification to the MIDAS install 
> Makefile (I noticed that there is an "install" target but not an "uninstall" target so I wrote it).
> If you are interested, I could make a merge request on BitBucket, just let me know.
> 

Hmm... for most experiments, we do not "install" midas. I should probably remove the "install" target from the Makefile.

K.O.



> Bests
> Giorgio
> 
> > Hi, Giorgio - you are asking excellent questions. I will try to answer them, but as ever, there are no 
> > easy answers.
> > 
> > In general, the top of the midas "develop" branch is "the best midas there is".
> > 
> > So for a new experiment, it is a reasonable place to start. Of course you can see
> > that there is quite a bit of commit activity going on, however, most substantial
> > changes are done on separate branches, where we try the new code, debug
> > it and test it. Only when the new code is "ready", we commit it to the "develop"
> > branch. Then, most often, we find some more last minute post-merge bugs,
> > and fix them right then and there on the head of the "develop" branch. Eventually
> > the dust settles and we have stable code that stays stable for a long time.
> > 
> > For example, right now we are waiting for the dust to settle on the change
> > of the MIDAS URL scheme, which was necessitated by needs of several experiments
> > that have more-complex-then-usual https proxy configurations. Unusual today,
> > but more common as we move forward, I think.
> > 
> > So if the head of the "develop" branch does not work for you, we encourage
> > that you file a bug report (here on this forum or on the bitbucket issue tracker).
> > 
> > While we try to sort out your problem, you can fall back to a previous version
> > of midas:
> > 
> > a) go back to one of the older "midas-YYYY-MM-X" tags
> > b) go back to one of the release candidate branches "feature/midas-YYYY-MM".
> > 
> > But if you have an already running system and you already have a working
> > instance of MIDAS, you do not have to update it to the latest version
> > unless you need some newest feature or you suffer from a bug
> > that has been fixed in a newer version.
> > 
> > In general, I find that it is fairly safe to update a working instance of MIDAS to
> > the latest code. But do keep your old working copy, if there is trouble, you can
> > always go back to something that works.
> > 
> > Now to your questions:
> > 
> > > For a running experiment that needs software stability what branch of the MIDAS 
> > > repository is better suited?
> > 
> > easy to answer. the most stable is the version you are using right now (doh!). each time
> > you upgrade, there is a risk that something will go wrong.
> > 
> > if you start from scratch, use the head of the "develop" branch (the latest and greatest),
> > if you run into trouble, report the trouble and update to a newer version with your
> > trouble fixed, or go back in time to previous tags and release candidate branches (as I described 
> > above).
> > 
> > > The master branch or the develop branch?
> > 
> > the "develop" branch.
> > 
> > > Moreover, what point in time do you think is more stable?
> > 
> > I find that it is impossible to have a stable-stable-stable version of midas
> > because the rest of the world flows forward in time. Old versions of midas
> > stop compiling because of OS and compiler changes; they stop running
> > because of OS or web browser or hardware changes. Then somebody
> > always asks for new features and new or old bugs surface constantly.
> > 
> > But we try to mark some "good" spots using git tags and release branches,
> > however the more far you go back in time, the more likely the code will
> > not even compile anymore.
> > 
> > 
> > K.O.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Hello!
> > > My name is Giorgio Pintaudi and I am a Ph.D. student at Yokohama National 
> > > University (Japan). I also happen to be a T2K collaborator.
> > > I am currently developing the DAQ software for a T2K near detector called WAGASCI 
> > > (different from ND280) and we recently decided to adopt MIDAS as a user 
> > > interface.
> > > Now I am using the "develop" branch of the MIDAS BitBucket repository: I merge 
> > > the remote repository every now and then with my local copy and that is fine ... 
> > > but on the 25th of April our experiment is officially starting and I was 
> > > wondering which version of MIDAS should I use for "production".
> > > So my question is:
> > > For a running experiment that needs software stability what branch of the MIDAS 
> > > repository is better suited? The master branch or the develop branch? Moreover, 
> > > what point in time do you think is more stable?
> > > Best regards
> > > Giorgio

> - mhttpd cannot serve /etc/passwd by default as "/" is forbidden in file names added to /Custom/Path.

You do this with a simple

if (custom_path == "/")

which does work but does not cover cases such as

"/./"
"/etc/../"
"/home/meg/../../"

Good luck with finding all the weird combinations which can lead to break ins. So we are where we were before.

Still, in my opinion we should not have a path in the ODB. The custom path should be hard-wired and combined with symbolic links if necessary. The custom HTML pages under /Custom in the ODB have to be scanned for ".."s.

Stefan