Hello there,

I am working on a task that involves some ODB changes that happen within 20-500 
ms. The wait command for Midas Sequencer only works for > 1 second. As a 
workaround, I tried calling a python script that has a time.sleep() command, but 
the sequencer doesn't wait for the python script to terminate before moving to the 
next command. Obviously, I could just move the entire script to python, but that 
would cause further issues to us. Is there a way to have a wait that has precision 
in order of milliseconds from within the Midas Sequencer? If there is no Midas-
native methods for doing this, what workaround will you suggest to get this to 
work?

I guess the simplest way to do that without breaking with existing code is to change the 
second number to a float. So a

WAIT SECONDS, 1

will still work, and you can then write

WAIT SECONDS, 0.01

to get a 10 ms wait. Would that work for you?

Stefan

> I guess the simplest way to do that without breaking with existing code is to change the 
> second number to a float. So a
> 
> WAIT SECONDS, 1
> 
> will still work, and you can then write
> 
> WAIT SECONDS, 0.01
> 
> to get a 10 ms wait. Would that work for you?

This would work fine in principle, but isn't implemented in the current MIDAS sequencer as we understand it.  (We tried!) Is your proposal to rewrite the sequencer 
to allow fractional waits?  Right now the code seems to store the start_time as a DWORD and uses atoi to parse the wait time, and uses ss_time (which seems only get
the time to the nearest second) to fetch the time.

> This would work fine in principle, but isn't implemented in the current MIDAS sequencer as we understand it.  (We tried!) Is your proposal to rewrite the sequencer 
> to allow fractional waits?  Right now the code seems to store the start_time as a DWORD and uses atoi to parse the wait time, and uses ss_time (which seems only get
> the time to the nearest second) to fetch the time.

No it's not implemented, was just my idea. If it would work for you, I can implement it in the next couple of days.

Stefan

> > This would work fine in principle, but isn't implemented in the current MIDAS sequencer as we understand it.  (We tried!) Is your proposal to rewrite the sequencer 
> > to allow fractional waits?  Right now the code seems to store the start_time as a DWORD and uses atoi to parse the wait time, and uses ss_time (which seems only get
> > the time to the nearest second) to fetch the time.
> 
> No it's not implemented, was just my idea. If it would work for you, I can implement it in the next couple of days.
> 
> Stefan

Yes, please!  Something like WAIT seconds, 0.01 would be perfect.

While I will do it, i'm not sure if this is what you want. If I understand correctly, some process gets triggered and then writes some values to the ODB, then the sequencer 
should continue. Putting a wait there is dangerous. Maybe your process always takes like 10-20 ms, so you put a wait of let's say 100ms, and things are fine with you. Your 
script runs many days, but then once in a while your machine is on heavy load because someone starts a web browser, and your process takes 110ms, and you script crashes.

I would rather go following path: put a "done" flag in the ODB, which is the last one which gets set by your process. Then the sequencer does a 

WAIT ODBvalue, /path/value, =, 1

which will work always, independend of the delay of your process.

Stefan

> While I will do it, i'm not sure if this is what you want. If I understand correctly, some process gets triggered and then writes some values to the ODB, then the sequencer 
> should continue. Putting a wait there is dangerous. Maybe your process always takes like 10-20 ms, so you put a wait of let's say 100ms, and things are fine with you. Your 
> script runs many days, but then once in a while your machine is on heavy load because someone starts a web browser, and your process takes 110ms, and you script crashes.
> 
> I would rather go following path: put a "done" flag in the ODB, which is the last one which gets set by your process. Then the sequencer does a 
> 
> WAIT ODBvalue, /path/value, =, 1
> 
> which will work always, independend of the delay of your process.
> 
> Stefan

Our use case is pretty simple and I don't think is affected by the scenario you envision.  We want to turn on a setting in our equipment, and turn it off again some 0.2 s later.  We don't need msec timing.  So something like:

ODBSET /somekey 1   # this will cause a front-end to flip a bit in our hardware     
WAIT seconds, 0.2
ODBSET /somekey 0   # this will cause a front-end to reset a bit in our hardware 

It is true that if the load is high there could be a little delay, and the time that the bit is set will not be 0.2 seconds, but on average it should work, 
and it should be good enough we think.

Yes, we could also check an ODB key to see that something is done, but we'd still need the ability to wait for time intervals less than 1 second, which
right now doesn't exist.

Ok, I implemented the float second wait function. Internally it works in ms, so the maximum resolution is 0.001 s.

Best,
Stefan

> Ok, I implemented the float second wait function. Internally it works in ms, so the maximum resolution is 0.001 s.
> 
> Best,
> Stefan

Thank you, we will test this soon and let you know if we see any issues (but we're not expecting any).

> > Ok, I implemented the float second wait function. Internally it works in ms, so the maximum resolution is 0.001 s.
> > 
> > Best,
> > Stefan
> 
> Thank you, we will test this soon and let you know if we see any issues (but we're not expecting any).

Hello Stefan,

Thank you for the help you provided for us so far. I tried your code changes on our midas fork. Now, I notice that any 
wait command takes at least 0.2 seconds to run. 

For example, when I use the following script:
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh
WAIT Seconds, 0.1
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh
WAIT Seconds, 0.1
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh

The time_print.sh script prints time segments separated by almost exactly 0.2 seconds. Same goes for when I use 0.01 
second waits.

However, when I use 0.2 seconds wait, then I get time segments separated by 0.3 seconds. I also tried something like 
this:
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh
WAIT Seconds, 0.2
WAIT Seconds, 0.2
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh
WAIT Seconds, 0.2
WAIT Seconds, 0.2
SCRIPT source scripts/time_print.sh

This script results in time segements of 0.6 seconds difference. It is not immidiately clear to me from the sequencer 
code what causes this effect. The code as it stands is a lot better than what we had before the changes, but I am 
wondering if this can be reduced to the order of 1ms or 10ms.

Best regards,
Musaab Faozi

Indeed there was a sleep(100ms) in the sequencer in each loop. I reduced it now to 10ms. I need at least 10ms since otherwise 
the sequencer would run in an infinite loop during the wait and burn 100% CPU. The smallest time slice on Linux to sleep is 
10ms, so that's why I set it to that. Give it a try.

Stefan

Actually I realized that a 1ms wait still works, so I reduced it to that.

Stefan

> Actually I realized that a 1ms wait still works, so I reduced it to that.
> 
> Stefan

Thank you so much, Stefan. I have tested your changes, and it seems like this does 
the job for our purposes. Very appreciated!

Best regards,
Musaab Faozi

Dear Midas experts,

I noticed that a check was added to mfe.cxx in 1961af0d6:

+      /* check for consistent common settings */
+      if ((eq_info->read_on & RO_STOPPED) &&
+          (eq_info->eq_type == EQ_POLLED ||
+           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_INTERRUPT ||
+           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_MULTITHREAD ||
+           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_USER)) {
+         cm_msg(MERROR, "register_equipment", "Events \"%s\" cannot be read when run is stopped (RO_STOPPED flag)", equipment[idx].name);
+         return 0;
+      }

This commit was by Stefan in May 2022.

A commit few days later, 28d9c96bd, removed the "return 0;", and updated the
error message to:

"Equipment \"%s\" contains RO_STOPPED or RO_ALWAYS. This can lead to undesired side-effect and should be removed."

So such FEs can run but there is still an error at start up. The 
documentation at https://daq00.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php/ReadOn_Flags
states with RO_STOPPED "Readout Occurs" "Before stopping run".
Which seems to indicate that the removing the RO_STOPPED bit from a SC FE
would just result in an additional read not happening just prior to a run
stop. However reading scheduler() in mfe.cxx I see in the the main loop:

 if (run_state == STATE_STOPPED && (eq_info->read_on & RO_STOPPED) == 0) 
    continue;

So it seems to me that the a EQ_PERIODIC equipment needs RO_STOPPED to be set
otherwise it will not read out data while there is no DAQ run.

Can someone explain the purpose of this check and error message? Perhaps it
was put in place with only DAQ FEs, not SC FEs in mind? And should the 
documentation in the wiki actually be "s/Before stopping run/While run is stopped/"?

Thanks,

Nick.

I just discovered https://bitbucket.org/tmidas/midas/issues/338/mfec-ro_stopped-is-now-forbidden

> Dear Midas experts,
> 
> I noticed that a check was added to mfe.cxx in 1961af0d6:
> 
> +      /* check for consistent common settings */
> +      if ((eq_info->read_on & RO_STOPPED) &&
> +          (eq_info->eq_type == EQ_POLLED ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_INTERRUPT ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_MULTITHREAD ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_USER)) {
> +         cm_msg(MERROR, "register_equipment", "Events \"%s\" cannot be read when run is stopped (RO_STOPPED flag)", equipment[idx].name);
> +         return 0;
> +      }
> 
> This commit was by Stefan in May 2022.
> 
> A commit few days later, 28d9c96bd, removed the "return 0;", and updated the
> error message to:
> 
> "Equipment \"%s\" contains RO_STOPPED or RO_ALWAYS. This can lead to undesired side-effect and should be removed."
> 
> So such FEs can run but there is still an error at start up. The 
> documentation at https://daq00.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php/ReadOn_Flags
> states with RO_STOPPED "Readout Occurs" "Before stopping run".
> Which seems to indicate that the removing the RO_STOPPED bit from a SC FE
> would just result in an additional read not happening just prior to a run
> stop. However reading scheduler() in mfe.cxx I see in the the main loop:
> 
>  if (run_state == STATE_STOPPED && (eq_info->read_on & RO_STOPPED) == 0) 
>     continue;
> 
> So it seems to me that the a EQ_PERIODIC equipment needs RO_STOPPED to be set
> otherwise it will not read out data while there is no DAQ run.
> 
> Can someone explain the purpose of this check and error message? Perhaps it
> was put in place with only DAQ FEs, not SC FEs in mind? And should the 
> documentation in the wiki actually be "s/Before stopping run/While run is stopped/"?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nick.

> I noticed that a check was added to mfe.cxx in 1961af0d6:
> 
> +      /* check for consistent common settings */
> +      if ((eq_info->read_on & RO_STOPPED) &&
> +          (eq_info->eq_type == EQ_POLLED ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_INTERRUPT ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_MULTITHREAD ||
> +           eq_info->eq_type == EQ_USER)) {
> +         cm_msg(MERROR, "register_equipment", "Events \"%s\" cannot be read when run is stopped (RO_STOPPED flag)", equipment[idx].name);
> +         return 0;
> +      }
> 
> 
> Can someone explain the purpose of this check and error message? Perhaps it
> was put in place with only DAQ FEs, not SC FEs in mind? And should the 
> documentation in the wiki actually be "s/Before stopping run/While run is stopped/"?

Indeed you have two types of events handled by mfe.cxx: Slow control events (EQ_SLOW or EQ_PRIODIC) and triggered events (EQ_POLLED or 
EQ_INTERRUPT or EQ_MULTITHREAD or EQ_USER). For slow control events it can make sense to read them also when the run is stopped, that's why you 
can specify RO_STOPPED or RO_ALWAYS. This does however not make sense for triggered events. Reading triggered events when the run is stopped 
invalidates the concept of runs (= read triggered events only during a run). We had cases where people mixed this up, so the warning was added. 
If you have a slow control event you want to read when the run is stopped, make sure it is of type EQ_SLOW or EQ_PERIODIC.

Stefan

We often use the MIDAS sequencer to temporarily control detector settings, such as:

* <change some setting>
* WAIT 60 seconds
* <revert setting to original value>

The question arises of what happens if the sequencer scripts gets aborted during that wait, preventing the value from being reset.  Depending on the setting, this could be undesirable or even damage something if left uncorrected for too long.

Is there any way to have a "safe abort" from the sequencer so that the "Stop immediately" button will call some cleanup script to leave things in a safe state?  Or what about if the sequencer process itself gets killed in the middle of a script?

How have other experiments using MIDAS protected themselves from unplanned terminations of sequencer scripts?

This request came more than once in the past. One thing I could implement is a "atexit" function similarly to the C funciton atexit().

Then we would have a function in the script which gets called whenever one does "stop immediately". This function can then restore
some ODB values or do whatever is necessary. 

If the sequencer gets killed in the middle, it can safely be restarted since the complete sequencer state is kept in the ODB under
/Sequencer/State. After the restart, the sequencer continues exactly where it has been killed before.

Would that solve your problem?

Stefan

> This request came more than once in the past. One thing I could implement is a "atexit" function similarly to the C funciton atexit().
> 
> Then we would have a function in the script which gets called whenever one does "stop immediately". This function can then restore
> some ODB values or do whatever is necessary. 
> 
> If the sequencer gets killed in the middle, it can safely be restarted since the complete sequencer state is kept in the ODB under
> /Sequencer/State. After the restart, the sequencer continues exactly where it has been killed before.
> 
> Would that solve your problem?
> 
> Stefan

Yes, an "atexit" functionality within the Midas Sequencer Language would be useful for us with this issue.  Is this easy for you to implement?

Thanks,
Scott Oser

I'm trying to get a sense of the rate limitations of a python frontend. I 
understand this will vary from system to system.

I adapted two frontends from the example templates, one in C++ and one in python. 
Both simply fill a midas bank with a fixed length array of zeros at a given polled 
rate. However, the C++ frontend is about 100 times faster in both data and event 
rates. This seems slow, even for an interpreted language like python. Furthermore, 
I can effectively increase the maximum rate by concurrently running a second 
python frontend (this is not the case for the C++ frontend). In short, there is 
some limitation with using python here unrelated to hardware.

In my case, poll_func appears to be called at 100Hz at best. What limits the rate 
that poll_func is called in a python frontend? Is there a more appropriate 
solution for increasing the python frontend data/event rate than simply launching 
more frontends?

I've attached my C++ and python frontend files for reference.

Thanks,
Jack