> > I've seen that a similar question has been asked in 2011 but I'll ask again in 
> > case there are any updates. Is there any way to write 64-bit data words to MIDAS 
> > banks (other than breaking them up in to two 32-bit words, such as 2 DWORDs) 
> > currently? And if not, is there any plan to introduce this feature in the future?
> 
> There is no "breaking them up" as such, you can treat a midas bank as a char* array
> and store arbitrary data inside. In this sense, "there is no need" for a special 64-bit bank type.
> 
> For endian-ness conversion (if such things still matter, big-endian PPC CPUs still exist), single 64-bit 
> word converts the same as two 32-bit words, so here also "there is no need", once can use banks of 
> DWORD with equal effect.
> 
> The above applies equally to 64-bit integers and 64-bit double-precision IEEE-754 floating point 
> numbers.
> 
> But specifically for 64-bit values, such as float64, there is a big gotcha.
> 
> The MIDAS banks structure goes to great lengths to make sure each data type is correctly aligned,
> and gets it exactly wrong for 64-bit quantities - all because the bank header is three 32-bit words.
> 
> bankhheader1
> bh2
> bh3
> bankdata1 <--- misaligned
> ...
> bankdataN
> bh1
> bh2
> bh3
> banddata1 <--- aligned
> ... etc
> 
> So we could introduce QWORD banks today, but inside the midas file, they will be misaligned defeating 
> the only purpose of adding them.
> 
> I guess the misalignement could be cured by adding dummy words, dummy banks, dummy bank 
> headers, etc.
> 
> I figure this problem dates all the way bank where alignement to 16-bits was just getting important. 
> Today, in the VME word, I have to align things on 128-bit boundaries (for 2eSST 2x2 DWORD transfers).
> 
> So back to your question, what advantage do you see in using a QWORD bank instead of putting the 
> same data in a DWORD bank?
> 
> K.O.

> > I've seen that a similar question has been asked in 2011 but I'll ask again in 
> > case there are any updates. Is there any way to write 64-bit data words to MIDAS 
> > banks (other than breaking them up in to two 32-bit words, such as 2 DWORDs) 
> > currently? And if not, is there any plan to introduce this feature in the future?
> 
> There is no "breaking them up" as such, you can treat a midas bank as a char* array
> and store arbitrary data inside. In this sense, "there is no need" for a special 64-bit bank type.
> 
> For endian-ness conversion (if such things still matter, big-endian PPC CPUs still exist), single 64-bit 
> word converts the same as two 32-bit words, so here also "there is no need", once can use banks of 
> DWORD with equal effect.
> 
> The above applies equally to 64-bit integers and 64-bit double-precision IEEE-754 floating point 
> numbers.
> 
> But specifically for 64-bit values, such as float64, there is a big gotcha.
> 
> The MIDAS banks structure goes to great lengths to make sure each data type is correctly aligned,
> and gets it exactly wrong for 64-bit quantities - all because the bank header is three 32-bit words.
> 
> bankhheader1
> bh2
> bh3
> bankdata1 <--- misaligned
> ...
> bankdataN
> bh1
> bh2
> bh3
> banddata1 <--- aligned
> ... etc
> 
> So we could introduce QWORD banks today, but inside the midas file, they will be misaligned defeating 
> the only purpose of adding them.
> 
> I guess the misalignement could be cured by adding dummy words, dummy banks, dummy bank 
> headers, etc.
> 
> I figure this problem dates all the way bank where alignement to 16-bits was just getting important. 
> Today, in the VME word, I have to align things on 128-bit boundaries (for 2eSST 2x2 DWORD transfers).
> 
> So back to your question, what advantage do you see in using a QWORD bank instead of putting the 
> same data in a DWORD bank?
> 
> K.O.


Thanks very much for your reply. I have implemented your suggestion of treating the 64-bit array as a 32-bit 
array for the bank write/read and this solution is working for me.

Thanks again for your help.

Thank you for reporting this problem:

a) ODB key *names* are restricted to 31 characters (32 bytes, last byte is a NUL), not 256 characters.
b) ODB string length is unlimited (32-bit length field)
c) ODB C API "db_get_value" & co require fixed length buffer and most users of this API provide a 256-byte fixed buffer for strings, some of them also do not 
check the status code, resulting in silent truncation. (I think the ODB functions themselves report truncation to midas.log, so not completely silent).

We try to fix this where we must - but it is cumbersome with the current ODB API - as in your fix on has to:
- get the ODB key, extract size
- allocate buffer
- call db_get_value() & co
- use the data
- remember to free the buffer on each and every return path

The first three steps could become one if we had an ODB "get_data" function that automatically allocated the data buffer.

But the main source of bugs will be the last step - remember to free the buffer, always.

P.S.

We are not alone in pondering how to do this best. If you want to see it "done right",
read the fresh-off-the-presses book "Go Programming Language" by Alan Donovan and Brian Kernighan,
http://www.gopl.io/

Brian Kernighan is the "K" in K&R "C programming language", still around and kicking, now at Google.
Sadly the "R" passed away in 2011 - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/technology/dennis-ritchie-programming-trailblazer-dies-at-70.html

K.O.

> Both the /Script and /CustomScript trees in the ODB allow users to trigger a 
> script via Midas - which silently truncates command strings longer than 
> 256 characters.
> 
> I'd prefer that Midas place no limit on string length.  Failing that, it would be
> helpful to have character limits called out in the documentation 
> (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Script_ODB_tree#.3Cscript-name.3E_key_or_subtree,
> https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Customscript_ODB_tree).
> 
> As far as I can tell, odb.c allows arbitrarily large strings in the ODB data.  
> (Although key *names* are restricted to 256 characters.)  I've submitted one 
> possible version of an arbitrary-length exec_script() as a pull request 
> (https://bitbucket.org/tmidas/midas/pull-requests/).
> 
> Am I misunderstanding any critical pieces?  Does Midas intentionally treat 
> strings in the ODB as limited to 256 characters?

Using low-level memory allocation routines in higher-level programs like mhttpd makes me nervous.

We could use vector arrays to allow variable-sized allocation, and use the data() member function to access the char* needed for functions like strlcat,
db_get_data, and db_sprintf.

This conforms to the c++ standard, but doesn't require explicit freeing by the user - at least, not when you're allocating std::vector<char>.

Amy

> Thank you for reporting this problem:
> 
> a) ODB key *names* are restricted to 31 characters (32 bytes, last byte is a NUL), not 256 characters.
> b) ODB string length is unlimited (32-bit length field)
> c) ODB C API "db_get_value" & co require fixed length buffer and most users of this API provide a 256-byte fixed buffer for strings, some of them also do not 
> check the status code, resulting in silent truncation. (I think the ODB functions themselves report truncation to midas.log, so not completely silent).
> 
> We try to fix this where we must - but it is cumbersome with the current ODB API - as in your fix on has to:
> - get the ODB key, extract size
> - allocate buffer
> - call db_get_value() & co
> - use the data
> - remember to free the buffer on each and every return path
> 
> The first three steps could become one if we had an ODB "get_data" function that automatically allocated the data buffer.
> 
> But the main source of bugs will be the last step - remember to free the buffer, always.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> We are not alone in pondering how to do this best. If you want to see it "done right",
> read the fresh-off-the-presses book "Go Programming Language" by Alan Donovan and Brian Kernighan,
> http://www.gopl.io/
> 
> Brian Kernighan is the "K" in K&R "C programming language", still around and kicking, now at Google.
> Sadly the "R" passed away in 2011 - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/technology/dennis-ritchie-programming-trailblazer-dies-at-70.html
> 
> K.O.
> 
> > Both the /Script and /CustomScript trees in the ODB allow users to trigger a 
> > script via Midas - which silently truncates command strings longer than 
> > 256 characters.
> > 
> > I'd prefer that Midas place no limit on string length.  Failing that, it would be
> > helpful to have character limits called out in the documentation 
> > (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Script_ODB_tree#.3Cscript-name.3E_key_or_subtree,
> > https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Customscript_ODB_tree).
> > 
> > As far as I can tell, odb.c allows arbitrarily large strings in the ODB data.  
> > (Although key *names* are restricted to 256 characters.)  I've submitted one 
> > possible version of an arbitrary-length exec_script() as a pull request 
> > (https://bitbucket.org/tmidas/midas/pull-requests/).
> > 
> > Am I misunderstanding any critical pieces?  Does Midas intentionally treat 
> > strings in the ODB as limited to 256 characters?

There were some complaints that the MIDAS sequencer was slow.  Specifically, the
complaint was that even lines in the sequence that didn't do any (like COMMENT
commands) tooks > 100ms to execute.  These slow sequencer steps could be a
little annoying if a script had to change a large number of ODB variables before
starting.

I tested this a little using a trivial sequence; note that I did all tests using
mhttpd with mongoose enabled on a newer macbook pro.  I found that with the
mongoose server each line in a sequencer script was taking ~100ms.  This is
consistent with the loop in the main thread, which is only doing a cm_yield and
a sleep:

   while (!_abort) {
      status = ss_mutex_wait_for(request_mutex, 0);
      status = cm_yield(0);
      if (status == RPC_SHUTDOWN)
         break;
      sequencer();
      status = ss_mutex_release(request_mutex);
      ss_sleep(100);
   }

I tested reducing the sleep to 20ms.  As expected, this made the sequencer more
zippy, able to execute ~50 commands per second.

I tried to think what would be downsides to making this change.  I think that
the main web communication should not be affected, because that communication is
all handled by the separate mongoose thread.

I checked how much extra CPU was used if the sleep was reduced from 100ms to
20ms.  I found that when a sequence was not running the CPU increased from 0% to
0.2% with my change.  When a sequence was running the CPU increased from 0.8% to
4% with my change.  4% is a little high, though I'd say still reasonable.  I
found that most of the CPU usage was occuring because every call to
'sequencer()' resulted in a call to db_set_record("/Sequencer/State"...).  I
guess that making that call 50 times causes the somewhat heavy CPU usage.

I would argue that it would still be worth making that change, so that the
sequencer can be more zippy.

> There were some complaints that the MIDAS sequencer was slow.  Specifically, the
> complaint was that even lines in the sequence that didn't do any (like COMMENT
> commands) tooks > 100ms to execute.  These slow sequencer steps could be a
> little annoying if a script had to change a large number of ODB variables before
> starting.
> ...
> I checked how much extra CPU was used if the sleep was reduced from 100ms to
> 20ms.  I found that when a sequence was not running the CPU increased from 0% to
> 0.2% with my change.  When a sequence was running the CPU increased from 0.8% to
> 4% with my change.  4% is a little high, though I'd say still reasonable.  I
> found that most of the CPU usage was occuring because every call to
> 'sequencer()' resulted in a call to db_set_record("/Sequencer/State"...).  I
> guess that making that call 50 times causes the somewhat heavy CPU usage.

One additional point: I think that it would be reasonably simple to reduce this CPU
usage even while a sequence was going on.  I would guess that for many sequences a
lot of time was spent in a 'WAIT SECONDS' command, since you would presumably want
to wait while data was being taken or conditions stabilizing.  I think that if you
are in a 'WAIT SECONDS' command that hasn't been satisfied then there probably isn't
any reason to do the db_set_record at the end of the sequencer() method.

> There were some complaints that the MIDAS sequencer was slow.  Specifically, the
> complaint was that even lines in the sequence that didn't do any (like COMMENT
> commands) tooks > 100ms to execute.  These slow sequencer steps could be a
> little annoying if a script had to change a large number of ODB variables before
> starting.
> 
> I tested this a little using a trivial sequence; note that I did all tests using
> mhttpd with mongoose enabled on a newer macbook pro.  I found that with the
> mongoose server each line in a sequencer script was taking ~100ms.  This is
> consistent with the loop in the main thread, which is only doing a cm_yield and
> a sleep:
> 
>    while (!_abort) {
>       status = ss_mutex_wait_for(request_mutex, 0);
>       status = cm_yield(0);
>       if (status == RPC_SHUTDOWN)
>          break;
>       sequencer();
>       status = ss_mutex_release(request_mutex);
>       ss_sleep(100);
>    }
> 
> I tested reducing the sleep to 20ms.  As expected, this made the sequencer more
> zippy, able to execute ~50 commands per second.
> 
> I tried to think what would be downsides to making this change.  I think that
> the main web communication should not be affected, because that communication is
> all handled by the separate mongoose thread.
> 
> I checked how much extra CPU was used if the sleep was reduced from 100ms to
> 20ms.  I found that when a sequence was not running the CPU increased from 0% to
> 0.2% with my change.  When a sequence was running the CPU increased from 0.8% to
> 4% with my change.  4% is a little high, though I'd say still reasonable.  I
> found that most of the CPU usage was occuring because every call to
> 'sequencer()' resulted in a call to db_set_record("/Sequencer/State"...).  I
> guess that making that call 50 times causes the somewhat heavy CPU usage.
> 
> I would argue that it would still be worth making that change, so that the
> sequencer can be more zippy.

The minimal time slice on most systems is 10 ms, and nothing prevents us from switching to
that. The original 100 ms was more for the fact that you can see the sequencer statements
executed one after the other (with the color bar). But this is more a "debugging" feature which 
we not really need. 

To do it "right" the sequencer would have to _return_ a sleep time. Like if it is in a wait loop (as
most of the time), the sleep time could be close to 1 second, to correctly update the wait
progress bar. If the sequencer executes ODB set statements, the wait time could be zero, so
thousands of statements can be executed in one second. The problem we will then have of course
that the sequencer will block the "request_mutex" almost always, which would prevent the
mongoose server from serving anything. So this should be carefully tested. It could be (on most OS)
that releasing the mutex by the main loop immediately switches to the mongoose thread, which would
make the web server still quite responsive, but I'm not sure about that. So as a first change making
the sleep time 10ms should be fine.

Stefan

> > I checked how much extra CPU was used if the sleep was reduced from 100ms to
> > 20ms.  I found that when a sequence was not running the CPU increased from 0% to
> > 0.2% with my change.  When a sequence was running the CPU increased from 0.8% to
> > 4% with my change.  4% is a little high, though I'd say still reasonable.  I
> > found that most of the CPU usage was occuring because every call to
> > 'sequencer()' resulted in a call to db_set_record("/Sequencer/State"...).  I
> > guess that making that call 50 times causes the somewhat heavy CPU usage.
> > 
> > I would argue that it would still be worth making that change, so that the
> > sequencer can be more zippy.
> 
> The minimal time slice on most systems is 10 ms, and nothing prevents us from switching to
> that. The original 100 ms was more for the fact that you can see the sequencer statements
> executed one after the other (with the color bar). But this is more a "debugging" feature which 
> we not really need. 

OK, I made this change; sleep is now 10ms on main thread.  Seems to work fine on SL6 and MacOS.

> To do it "right" the sequencer would have to _return_ a sleep time. Like if it is in a wait loop (as
> most of the time), the sleep time could be close to 1 second, to correctly update the wait
> progress bar. If the sequencer executes ODB set statements, the wait time could be zero, so
> thousands of statements can be executed in one second. The problem we will then have of course
> that the sequencer will block the "request_mutex" almost always, which would prevent the
> mongoose server from serving anything. So this should be carefully tested. It could be (on most OS)
> that releasing the mutex by the main loop immediately switches to the mongoose thread, which would
> make the web server still quite responsive, but I'm not sure about that. So as a first change making
> the sleep time 10ms should be fine.

Hmm, yeah, I'm not sure about how to handle reducing the wait time to zero after ODB set commands.

But it does seem like it would be straight-forward to increase the sleep time for waits; I'll look into
a clean way of doing that.

> Hmm, yeah, I'm not sure about how to handle reducing the wait time to zero after ODB set commands.
> 
> But it does seem like it would be straight-forward to increase the sleep time for waits; I'll look into
> a clean way of doing that.

Let's see how your 10 ms work in real life. If we need variable wait times, I can implement this for your without much effort.

Stefan

> Using low-level memory allocation routines in higher-level programs like mhttpd makes me nervous.

It should not, people have used malloc() for decades now without much injury to themselves. (Thomas corrects me: some people had big injury to their pride, me included).

> We could use vector arrays to allow variable-sized allocation, and use the data() member function to access the char* needed for functions like strlcat,
> db_get_data, and db_sprintf.

I thought auto_ptr was the correct tool to allocate "I just need a few bytes for a few minutes" arrays, but there is some discrepancy
between delete and delete[] (with brackets) and auto_ptr p(new char[i]) is verboten (even though it compiles just fine).

I ended up writing a custom replacement for auto_ptr called auto_string - now in mhttpd.cxx available for use in other places like this.

Still I think a db_get_data() that returns allocated memory is the correct solution. But this memory still needs to be released and lacking auto_ptr it opens the door for memory leaks.

> This conforms to the c++ standard, but doesn't require explicit freeing by the user - at least, not when you're allocating std::vector<char>

I do not think std::vector<char> can be cast into "char*" and used as replacement of "char str[100]" or "char* str = malloc(i);"

In other new, the limit on the command length is now removed.

K.O.

> 
> Amy
> 
> > Thank you for reporting this problem:
> > 
> > a) ODB key *names* are restricted to 31 characters (32 bytes, last byte is a NUL), not 256 characters.
> > b) ODB string length is unlimited (32-bit length field)
> > c) ODB C API "db_get_value" & co require fixed length buffer and most users of this API provide a 256-byte fixed buffer for strings, some of them also do not 
> > check the status code, resulting in silent truncation. (I think the ODB functions themselves report truncation to midas.log, so not completely silent).
> > 
> > We try to fix this where we must - but it is cumbersome with the current ODB API - as in your fix on has to:
> > - get the ODB key, extract size
> > - allocate buffer
> > - call db_get_value() & co
> > - use the data
> > - remember to free the buffer on each and every return path
> > 
> > The first three steps could become one if we had an ODB "get_data" function that automatically allocated the data buffer.
> > 
> > But the main source of bugs will be the last step - remember to free the buffer, always.
> > 
> > P.S.
> > 
> > We are not alone in pondering how to do this best. If you want to see it "done right",
> > read the fresh-off-the-presses book "Go Programming Language" by Alan Donovan and Brian Kernighan,
> > http://www.gopl.io/
> > 
> > Brian Kernighan is the "K" in K&R "C programming language", still around and kicking, now at Google.
> > Sadly the "R" passed away in 2011 - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/technology/dennis-ritchie-programming-trailblazer-dies-at-70.html
> > 
> > K.O.
> > 
> > > Both the /Script and /CustomScript trees in the ODB allow users to trigger a 
> > > script via Midas - which silently truncates command strings longer than 
> > > 256 characters.
> > > 
> > > I'd prefer that Midas place no limit on string length.  Failing that, it would be
> > > helpful to have character limits called out in the documentation 
> > > (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Script_ODB_tree#.3Cscript-name.3E_key_or_subtree,
> > > https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php//Customscript_ODB_tree).
> > > 
> > > As far as I can tell, odb.c allows arbitrarily large strings in the ODB data.  
> > > (Although key *names* are restricted to 256 characters.)  I've submitted one 
> > > possible version of an arbitrary-length exec_script() as a pull request 
> > > (https://bitbucket.org/tmidas/midas/pull-requests/).
> > > 
> > > Am I misunderstanding any critical pieces?  Does Midas intentionally treat 
> > > strings in the ODB as limited to 256 characters?

Dear friends,

We have some questions on using midas.
We use a Caen digitizer V1751 to take waveforms.
When testing with caen provided programs, we roughly know it can work fine at 1000 Hz event rate, and 30 M/s data can be written to disk.
The test with Midas, however, is a little confusing. We use CAENDigitizer library with Midas. First, it works, data were taken, and there seems no error.
The only problem is we cannot go to a higher event rate, for example we can only work on a rate of 40 Hz, and only 3 M/s data recording. Otherwise it will crush.

We may miss something really simple. Would you please give some suggestions? for example, other people's discussions or documents?

Thank you very much.

Dear friends,

I may add a little more information.
For polling event, we check the data-ready register for the status of the digitizer.
In the readout routine, we create a bank, readout the data and write it out.

We commented out or made some replacement for each part of the subroutines to figure our where exactly goes wrong.
for example, replace the readout from the digitizer with a random generation of some fake events.
By replacing the readout by a random generation, the program runs fine and reach a very high event rates.

Any suggestions or ideas from experts?

Thank you very much.

--
Best regards,
Zhe Wang


> Dear friends,
> 
> We have some questions on using midas.
> We use a Caen digitizer V1751 to take waveforms.
> When testing with caen provided programs, we roughly know it can work fine at 1000 Hz event rate, and 30 M/s data can be written to disk.
> The test with Midas, however, is a little confusing. We use CAENDigitizer library with Midas. First, it works, data were taken, and there seems no error.
> The only problem is we cannot go to a higher event rate, for example we can only work on a rate of 40 Hz, and only 3 M/s data recording. Otherwise it will crush.
> 
> We may miss something really simple. Would you please give some suggestions? for example, other people's discussions or documents?
> 
> Thank you very much.

Dear friends,

In case anyone need the source code, it is attached. 
We use optic fiber to connect to a VME controler, which talks to V1751 via VME bus.

--
Zhe Wang

> Dear friends,
> 
> I may add a little more information.
> For polling event, we check the data-ready register for the status of the digitizer.
> In the readout routine, we create a bank, readout the data and write it out.
> 
> We commented out or made some replacement for each part of the subroutines to figure our where exactly goes wrong.
> for example, replace the readout from the digitizer with a random generation of some fake events.
> By replacing the readout by a random generation, the program runs fine and reach a very high event rates.
> 
> Any suggestions or ideas from experts?
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> Zhe Wang
> 
> 
> > Dear friends,
> > 
> > We have some questions on using midas.
> > We use a Caen digitizer V1751 to take waveforms.
> > When testing with caen provided programs, we roughly know it can work fine at 1000 Hz event rate, and 30 M/s data can be written to disk.
> > The test with Midas, however, is a little confusing. We use CAENDigitizer library with Midas. First, it works, data were taken, and there seems no error.
> > The only problem is we cannot go to a higher event rate, for example we can only work on a rate of 40 Hz, and only 3 M/s data recording. Otherwise it will crush.
> > 
> > We may miss something really simple. Would you please give some suggestions? for example, other people's discussions or documents?
> > 
> > Thank you very much.

Somehow I don't understand why people's reply is only in my mail box.
So I pasted them here. I hope they don't mind and these information may be useful for others.

The following is some discussion.
==========================================================================================
> In read_trigger_event(), you creating a secondary bank with time in
> second. For your information, this time in second is already written in
> the event header. You can retrieve the time using macros from the
> midas.h   time = TIME_STAMP(pevent)

Removed.

>
> In frontend_init() you loop over NFADC (1) and call for each loop
> frontend_config() after opening the device on that card. In
> frontend_config() you redo a loop over NFADC, meaning that in case of
> more than one card you will find the second one not open on the first
> frontend_config (ok for one card though).
>

Corrected.

> In frontend_config() what is the return sCAEN from MallocReadoutBuffer()?
> What is the size of the requested allocated buffer?

The return size of allocated buffer is 134936.

>
> What is the value of the sCAEN from the ReadData() function in
> read_trigger_event()?

It is always 0 for success until it crashes.
However, even for the event it crashes, it also appears as 0.

>
> I didn't check all the config parameters!
>
> What is the value of count in the poll_event(). It is true if the test
> in poll_event() is too short, it cause timing corruption during
> calibration. 

Do you mean Midas timing calibration for poll_event() before all finally start up?
We havn't observed corruption at this stage.

> This never happen during CAMAC time... to be fixed!
> The alternative is to include a ss_sleep(1) instead of the prescale.
> a 1ms delay between every poll is short enough to ensure your 1KHz trigger.

We tried ss_sleep(1) in poll_event(), and it doesn't help.
We also tried add a ss_sleep(10) in the read_trigger_event().
This may work. But we can only reach 100 Hz and 1 MB/s rate. Still low.

>
> How long do you spend in the read_trigger_event()? To be measured.

We add some timers in this part of the program.
The time spent on CAEN_DGTZ_ReadData is about 100 us.
To sleep 1 ms in read_trigger_event may delay the crush, but just one minute.
To sleep 10 ms works.

>
> I still don't understand your setup as you mention using optic fiber to
> access the VME controller? do you have a A3818 or similar to the
> controller? If so why don't you connect directly the optic to the VX1751
> and prevent the use of the VME backplane?

Our connect is:
A2818 (PCI) - fiber - V2718 (Bridge) - VME - V1751
We probably need to configure other vme boards through VME at the same time,
however, these boards don't have a fiber connection.

We also tested direct fiber connect for V1751 today.
But it crashes with the same symptom.
==========================================================================================

Suggestion from John and my reply.

> We have achieved very high rates, but only with some care.

> The biggest issue was to make sure when you compile the CAEN driver for the A3818 board that you turn on the MIDAS switch.  Without that problems occur with some 
> probability given by the number of bytes processed - which translates into very soon if you have a high rate.  (The underlying cause is that both MIDAS and the A3818
> use unix Alarm signals, but the CAEN folks have a compile option to turn this off.)

> We use as little as possible of the CAENDigitizerLibrary - instead we program the registers directly on the board.

> There is still some kind of memory leak which we have not yet tracked down, so every few hours we shut down the frontend then restart it. 

We use A2818 (PCI) - fiber - V2718 (Bridge) - VME - V1751.
I actually didn't find a MIDAS switch in the Makefile.

More suggestions from John and my reply.

> we also don't use the VME back plane - it's just too slow - mixing VME commands to plain modules and digitizer modules is unreliable....

> We use CAEN fiberoptic version 2 to talk to the digitizers directly, we have upto 12 digitizers, and can use all channels for several hours, and can fill to about 75% 
of the A3818 bandwidth... 

So far we are limitted to 30 MB/s, if tested with CAEN examples, for example, the wavedump program by CAEN.
I think is kind of the limit by IDE hard drive.
Unfortunately we are still far from that limit, only ~ 1 MB/s now.  :(

I recently needed to watch the Midas messages for a particular error - and 
thus needed a command to "get all the messages since a time t".

The documentation (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php/AJAX#jmsg) 
documents a way to "get the most recent n messages" - but when I dug into the 
code, I was delighted to find that the existing Midas code also supports the 
"get all messages since t" query.

For the "get all messages since t" query, the parameter t should be the unix 
timestamp in seconds, and the parameter n should be zero: curl -X GET 
"http://localhost:8081/?cmd=jmsg&n=0&t=1473437918".

Pretty useful!  Perhaps this should be added to the AJAX documentation?

> I recently needed to watch the Midas messages for a particular error - and 
> thus needed a command to "get all the messages since a time t".
> 
> The documentation (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php/AJAX#jmsg) 
> documents a way to "get the most recent n messages" - but when I dug into the 
> code, I was delighted to find that the existing Midas code also supports the 
> "get all messages since t" query.
> 
> For the "get all messages since t" query, the parameter t should be the unix 
> timestamp in seconds, and the parameter n should be zero: curl -X GET 
> "http://localhost:8081/?cmd=jmsg&n=0&t=1473437918".
> 
> Pretty useful!  Perhaps this should be added to the AJAX documentation?

Thank you - I have added it to the documentation.

> I recently needed to watch the Midas messages for a particular error - and 
> thus needed a command to "get all the messages since a time t".
> 
> The documentation (https://midas.triumf.ca/MidasWiki/index.php/AJAX#jmsg) 
> documents a way to "get the most recent n messages" - but when I dug into the 
> code, I was delighted to find that the existing Midas code also supports the 
> "get all messages since t" query.
> 
> For the "get all messages since t" query, the parameter t should be the unix 
> timestamp in seconds, and the parameter n should be zero: curl -X GET 
> "http://localhost:8081/?cmd=jmsg&n=0&t=1473437918".
> 
> Pretty useful!  Perhaps this should be added to the AJAX documentation?

The "jmsg" methods are obsolete - please use the JSON-RPC method "cm_msg_retrieve" as shown in resources/example.html. It takes all the same parameters as the midas.h 
cm_msg_retrieve() function, see the snipped from example.html below.

To see the full list of JSON-RPC methods, go to the "help" page and press the button for "json-rpc schema in text table format".

The entry for "cm_msg_retrieve" has this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cm_msg_retrieve?      | Retrieve midas messages using cm_msg_retrieve2()
                      | ------------------------------------------------------------
                      | params   | facility?           | string         | message facility, default is "midas"
                      |          | min_messages?       | integer        | get at least this many messages, default is 1
                      |          | time?               | number         | start from given timestamp, value 0 means give me newest messages, default is 0
                      | ------------------------------------------------------------
                      | result   | num_messages        | integer        | number of messages returned
                      |          | messages            | string         | messages separated by \n
                      |          | status              | integer        | return status of cm_msg_retrieve2()
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Snippet from resources/example.html: (to add "time" parameter, put "time":12345 next to "min_messages").

<input type=button value='Get last 10 midas messages'
          onClick='mjsonrpc_call("cm_msg_retrieve", { "min_messages": 10 })
                   .then(function(rpc) {
                   document.getElementById("cm_msg_retrieve_num_messages").innerHTML = JSON.stringify(rpc.result.num_messages);
                   document.getElementById("cm_msg_retrieve_messages").innerHTML = JSON.stringify(rpc.result.messages);
                   //mjsonrpc_debug_alert(rpc);
                   })
                   .catch(function(error) {
                   mjsonrpc_error_alert(error);
                   });'></input>

> 
> More suggestions from John and my reply.
> 
> > we also don't use the VME back plane - it's just too slow - mixing VME commands to plain modules and digitizer modules is unreliable....
> 
> > We use CAEN fiberoptic version 2 to talk to the digitizers directly, we have upto 12 digitizers, and can use all channels for several hours, and can fill to about 75% 
> of the A3818 bandwidth... 
> 
> So far we are limitted to 30 MB/s, if tested with CAEN examples, for example, the wavedump program by CAEN.
> I think is kind of the limit by IDE hard drive.
> Unfortunately we are still far from that limit, only ~ 1 MB/s now.  :(
>

From writing MIDAS frontends for many years, I am starting to form an opinion that this type of problem is undebuggable
in the current midas frontend framework - it is impossible to separate problems in vendor-supplied libraries and linux kernel modules
from problems with midas (i.e. incorrectly created data banks, too-small event buffers getting full) from problems with
bad interaction (collision over the SIGALARM handlers).

I am pondering on a new scheme for midas frontend writing. Perhaps such a new scheme should have a "no midas" mode where you can
compile and link a midas frontend "without midas", leaving you to debug just your code and the vendor code and their interactions.

K.O.