To record discussion with Stefan about long history variable names.

We have several requests to remove the 32-byte limit on history variable names.

Presently, history variable names are formed from two 32-byte strings: history event name and 
history tag name:

* history event name is usually same as the equipment name (also a 32-byte string)
* history tag name is composed from /eq/xxx/variables/yyy name (also a 32-byte string) or from 
names in /eq/xxx/variables/names and "names zzz", which can have arbitrary length (and tag name 
would have to be truncated).

This worked well for "per-equipment" history, history events corresponded to equipment/variables 
and all data from equipment/variables were written together in one go. (this very inefficient if 
values of only one variable is updated).

Then at some point we implemented "per-variable" history:

* history event name is a equipment name (32-byte string) plus /eq/xxx/variables/vvv variable name 
(also 32-byte string). (obviously truncation is quite possible)
* history tag name is unchanged (also can be truncated)

With "per-variable" history, history events correspond to individual variables (ODB entries) in 
/eq/xxx/variables. If value of one variable is updated, only that variable is written to ODB. This 
is much more efficient. (If variable is an array, the whole array is written, is variable is a 
subdirectory, the whole subdirectory is written).

We considered even finer granularity, writing to history file only the one value that changed, but 
decided against slicing the data too fine. (for arrays, MIDAS frontends usually update all values 
of an array, as in "array of 10 temperatures" or "array of 4000 high voltages").

Many years later, we have the SQL history and the FILE history which do not have the 32-byte limit 
on history event names and history tag names (no limit in the MIDAS C++ code. MySQL and PgSQL have 
limits on table name and column name lengths, 64 bytes and 31 bytes respectively, best I can 
tell).

But the API still uses the MIDAS "struct TAG" with the 32-byte tag name length limit.

It is pretty easy to change the API to use a new "struct TAG_CXX" with std::string unlimited-
length tag names, but the old MIDAS history will be unable to deal with long names. Hence
the discussion about removing the old MIDAS history and keeping only the FILE and SQL history 
(plus the mhdump and mh2sql tools to convert old history files to the new formats).

(some code in mhttpd may need to be corrected for long history names. javascript code should be 
okey, history plot code may need adjustment to display pathologically long names. use small font, 
truncate, etc).

K.O.

> perhaps c++20? - std::format is an immediately useful feature. --regards, Pasha

confirmed. std::format is an improvement over K&R C printf().

but seems unavailable on U-20 and older, requires --std=c++20 on U-24 and MacOS.

but also available as a standalone library: https://github.com/fmtlib/fmt

myself, I use printf() and msprintf(), I think std::format is in the "too little, too late to save C++" 
department.

K.O.

> > ...I talked to KO so he agreed that yo then commit your proposed change of manalyzer 
> Merged and pushed.

negative. as I already 

midas web pages that use overlays (dlgPanel, etc) are currently broken - if 
overlay does not fit in the visible window, it's bottom is truncated and control 
buttons like "create" and "cancel" are not visible, not clickable, page does not 
work.

when these pages were originally written, I am pretty sure these overlays were 
scrollable and this problem did not exist. I think that was broken recently, 
maybe withint the last year or so.

specific examples:

a) odb editor:

- open odb editor,
- click on "create odb link"
- click on "link target ...", a dialog overlay opens with a list of odb keys in 
the current directory
- select a directory with a large number of entries (i.e. "/Programs")
- alternatively, make browser window smaller
- observe the "ok" and "cancel" buttons are not visible, cannot be clicked
- definitely, there used be a scroll bar and one could scroll down to see these 
buttons.

b) history planel editor:

- open history plot,
- click on "configure this plot" icon,
- history editor opens,
- click "add active variables"
- select active event that has many variables
- observe that the list is cut off at the bottom, the very last variables are 
not visible
- alternatively, make the browser window smaller

I wrote this page and at the time this problem did not exist, there was a scroll 
bar and one could scroll up and down the list even if there were really many 
variables there.

Maybe this breakage is not from us, I see similar problems on other sites, so 
maybe browser behaviour changed recentlyshly.

I think Stefan write the dlgPanel code originally? I am not very familiar with 
it and I do not know if anybody changed it recently?

K.O.

> Following discussions at the MIDAS workshop, we propose to move MIDAS from c++11 to c++17.

There were no objections to this move.

There was one suggestion to use std::format available in c++20 (MIDAS has very similar msprintf()).

We shall move forward with this change.

K.O.

> we should finally bite the bullet and remove ROOT support from MIDAS ...

there were no objections to removing ROOT support from mlogger.

there was a request to keep rmana.

We shall move forward with this:
- remove all the HAVE_ROOT code from mlogger.cxx
- for now, keep HAVE_ROOT in CMakefile (HAVE_ROOT was removed from Makefile a long time ago)
- for now, keep rmana
- look into moving rmana to a separate package or a separate subdirectory and keep maximum compatibility 
with existing make files.

K.O.

> Historically, building MIDAS with ROOT caused us many problems - build failures because of c++ version 
> mismatch, CFLAGS mismatch; run-time failures because of ROOT library mismatches; etc, etc.
> 
> Following discussions at the MIDAS Workshop, we think we should finally bite the bullet and remove ROOT 
> support from MIDAS:
> 
> - remove support for writing data in ROOT TTree format in mlogger (rmlogger)
> - remove support for ROOT in mana.c based analyzer (which itself we propose to remove)
> - remove ROOT helper functions in rmidas.h
> - remove ROOT support in cmake
> - remove rmlogger and rmana
> 
> This change will not affect the rootana and manalyzer packages, they will continue to be built with 
> ROOT support if ROOT is available.
> 
> Right now, we cannot remember any experiment that uses the ROOT TTree output function in mlogger. 
> 
> If you use this feature, we very much would like to hear from you. Please contact Stefan or myself or 
> reply to this message.
> 
> As replacement for rmlogger, we could implement identical or similar functionality using an manalyzer-
> based custom logger, but we need at least one user who can test it for us and confirm that it works 
> correctly.
> 
> K.O.

I added Makefile rules for running MIDAS through the clang-tidy static code 
analyzer. (rules for running cppcheck have gone missing, I hope I find them).

Reports from clang-tidy are somewhat repetitive (complain about the same class of 
non-problem problems repeatedly), but several warnings and errors identified real 
bugs.

Specifically, detection of memory leaks in error paths and detection of NULL 
pointer dereference and use of uninitialized variables is pretty solid.

Fixes for the worst problems reported by cppcheck and clang-tidy are already 
committed to midas git.

K.O.

> I would handle this actually like symbolic links are handled under linux. If you delete a symbolic link, the link gets 
> detected and NOT the file the link is pointing to.
> 
> So I conclude that the "follow links" is a misconception and should be removed.

I am finally writing test code for the ODB API, partially to discover what db_delete_key(TRUE) actually does,
because when I went ahead to remove it, I found that it's use is inconsistent. And indeed
it does strange and unexpected things, I will proceed with removing it.

K.O.

> Sorry about that. I could not figure out what was the reason for doing this. This was during the time I was working on the file_picker. I removed these lines and see no effect on the file_picker. I'll continue checking it affect anything else.

I confirm reported problem seems to be fixed in commit:
https://bitbucket.org/tmidas/midas/commits/7f2690b478d6dfb16b48fc98955093e6369b04c1

Big thanks to Stefan and Zaher for figuring it out quickly.

K.O.

> > I would handle this actually like symbolic links are handled under linux. If you delete a symbolic link, the link gets 
> > detected and NOT the file the link is pointing to.
> > 
> > So I conclude that the "follow links" is a misconception and should be removed.
> 
> I am finally writing test code for the ODB API, partially to discover what db_delete_key(TRUE) actually does,
> because when I went ahead to remove it, I found that it's use is inconsistent. And indeed
> it does strange and unexpected things, I will proceed with removing it.
> 

this is now merged into develop. there will be deprecation warnings from mvodb and from midas_c_compat, I and Ben will clean 
them up, just not today.

for more detail, see separate message.

K.O.

In the darkside vertical slice midas daq, we observed odb corruption which I 
traced to db_delete_key(). cause of corruption is not important. important is to 
have a robust odb where small corruption will stay localized and will not 
require erasing corrupt odb and reloading it from a backup file.

To help debug such corruption one can try to set ODB "/Experiment/Protect ODB" 
to "yes". This will make ODB shared memory read-only and user code scribbling 
into the wrong memory address will cause a seg fault and core dump instead of 
silent ODB corruption. This feature is not enabled by default because changing 
ODB shared memory mapping from "read-only" to "writable" (and back) is not very 
fast and it slows down MIDAS noticably.

MIDAS right before this merge was tagged "midas-2025-11-a", if you see this ODB 
update cause trouble, please report it here and revert to this tagged version.

Updates:
- harden db_delete_key() against internal corruption, if odb inconsistency is 
detected, do a clean crash instead of trying to delete stuff and corrupting odb 
to the point where it has to be erased and reloaded from a backup file.
- additional refactoring to separate read-locked and write-locked code.
- merge of missing patch to avoid odb corruption when key area becomes 100% full 
(or was it the data area? I forget now, I fixed one of them long time ago, now 
both are fixed).
- remove the "follow_links" argument from db_delete_key(), see separate 
discussion on this.
- add db_delete() to delete things by ODB path not by hkey (atomic fused 
together db_find_link() and db_delete_key()).
- fixes for incorrect use of db_find_key() and db_delete_key(), this 
unexpectedly follows symlinks and deletes the wrong ODB entry. (should have been 
db_find_link(), now replaced with atomic db_delete()).

K.O.

> > Following discussions at the MIDAS workshop, we propose to move MIDAS from c++11 to c++17.
> We shall move forward with this change.

It is done. Last c++11 MIDAS is midas-2025-11-a (plus the db_delete_key merge).

I notice the cmake does not actually pass "-std=c++17" to the c++ compiler, and on U-20, it is likely 
the default c++14 is used. cmake always does the wrong thing and this will need to be fixed later.

K.O.

> > we should finally bite the bullet and remove ROOT support from MIDAS ...

as discussed, HAVE_ROOT and OBSOLETE were removed from mlogger. rmana and ROOT support in manalyzed remain, 
untouched.

last rmlogger is in MIDAS tagged midas-2025-11-a.

K.O.

> (rules for running cppcheck have gone missing, I hope I find them).

found them. I built cppcheck from sources.

  520  ~/git/cppcheck/build/bin/cppcheck src/midas.cxx
  523  ~/git/cppcheck/build/bin/cppcheck manalyzer/manalyzer.cxx manalyzer/mjsroot.cxx 
  524  ~/git/cppcheck/build/bin/cppcheck src/tmfe.cxx
  525  ~/git/cppcheck/build/bin/cppcheck midasio/*.cxx
  526  ~/git/cppcheck/build/bin/cppcheck mjson/*.cxx

K.O.

Hello Stefan,
is there a difference for the later data processing (after writing the ring buffer blocks)
if we write single events or multiple in one rb_get_wp - memcopy - rb_increment_wp cycle?
Both Marius and me have seen some inconsistencies in the number of events produced that is reported in the status page when writing multiple events in one go,
so I was wondering if this is due to us treating the buffer badly or the way midas handles the events after that.

Given that we produce the full event in our (FPGA) domain, an option would be to always copy one event from the dma to the midas-system buffer in a loop.
The question is if there is a difference (for midas) between
[pseudo code, much simplified]

while(dma_read_index < last_dma_write_index){
  if(rb_get_wp(pdata)!=SUCCESS){
    dma_read_index+=event_size;
    continue;   
  }
  copy_n(dma_buffer, pdata, event_size);
  rb_increment_wp(event_size);
  dma_read_index+=event_size;
} 

and

while(dma_read_index < last_dma_write_index){
  if(rb_get_wp(pdata)!=SUCCESS){
     ...
  };
  total_size=max_n_events_that_fit_in_rb_block();
  copy_n(dma_buffer, pdata, total_size);
  rb_increment_wp(total_size);
  dma_read_index+=total_size;
}

Cheers,
Konrad

> The rb_xxx function are (thoroughly tested!) robust against high data rate given that you use them as intended:
> 
> 1) Once you create the ring buffer via rb_create(), specify the maximum event size (overall event size, not bank size!). Later there is no protection any more, so if you obtain pdata from rb_get_wp, you can of course write 4GB to pdata, overwriting everything in your memory, causing a total crash. It's your responsibility to not write more bytes into pdata then 
> what you specified as max event size in rb_create()
> 
> 2) Once you obtain a write pointer to the ring buffer via rb_get_wp, this function might fail when the receiving side reads data slower than the producing side, simply because the buffer is full. In that case the producing side has to wait until space is freed up in the buffer by the receiving side. If your call to rb_get_wp returns DB_TIMEOUT, it means that the 
> function did not obtain enough free space for the next event. In that case you have to wait (like ss_sleep(10)) and try again, until you succeed. Only when rb_get_wp() returns DB_SUCCESS, you are allowed to write into pdata, up to the maximum event size specified in rb_create of course. I don't see this behaviour in your code. You would need something 
> like
> 
> do {
>    status = rb_get_wp(rbh, (void **)&pdata, 10);
>    if (status == DB_TIMEOUT)
>       ss_sleep(10);
>    } while (status == DB_TIMEOUT);
> 
> Best,
> Stefan
> 
> 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > we creating Midas events directly inside a FPGA and send them off via DMA into the PC RAM. For reading out this RAM via Midas the FPGA sends as a pointer where it has written the last 4kB of data. We use this pointer for telling the ring buffer of midas where the new events are. The buffer looks something like:
> > 
> > // event 1
> > dma_buf[0] = 0x00000001; // Trigger and Event ID
> > dma_buf[1] = 0x00000001; // Serial number
> > dma_buf[2] = TIME; // time
> > dma_buf[3] = 18*4-4*4; // event size
> > dma_buf[4] = 18*4-6*4; // all bank size
> > dma_buf[5] = 0x11; // flags
> > // bank 0
> > dma_buf[6] = 0x46454230; // bank name
> > dma_buf[7] = 0x6; // bank type TID_DWORD
> > dma_buf[8] = 0x3*4; // data size
> > dma_buf[9] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > dma_buf[10] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > dma_buf[11] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > // bank 1
> > dma_buf[12] = 0x1; // bank name
> > dma_buf[12] = 0x46454231; // bank name
> > dma_buf[13] = 0x6; // bank type TID_DWORD
> > dma_buf[14] = 0x3*4; // data size
> > dma_buf[15] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > dma_buf[16] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > dma_buf[17] = 0xAFFEAFFE; // data
> > 
> > // event 2
> > .....
> > 
> > dma_buf[fpga_pointer] = 0xXXXXXXXX;
> > 
> > 
> > And we do something like:
> > 
> > while{true}
> >    // obtain buffer space
> >    status = rb_get_wp(rbh, (void **)&pdata, 10);
> >    fpga_pointer = fpga.read_last_data_add();
> > 
> >    wlen = last_fpga_pointer - fpga_pointer; \\ in 32 bit words
> >    copy_n(&dma_buf[last_fpga_pointer], wlen, pdata);
> >    rb_status = rb_increment_wp(rbh, wlen * 4); \\ in byte
> > 
> >    last_fpga_pointer = fpga_pointer;
> > 
> > Leaving the case out where the dma_buf wrap around this works fine for a small data rate. But if we increase the rate the fpga_pointer also increases really fast and wlen gets quite big. Actually it gets bigger then max_event_size which is checked in rb_increment_wp leading to an error. 
> > 
> > The problem now is that the event size is actually not to big but since we have multi events in the buffer which are read by midas in one step. So we think in this case the function rb_increment_wp is comparing actually the wrong thing. Also increasing the max_event_size does not help.
> > 
> > Remark: dma_buf is volatile so memcpy is not possible here.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Marius

> Hi there:
> I have a question if there's anybody out there running MIDAS with event builder
> that assembles events from more that just a few front ends (say on the order of
> 0x10 or more)?
> Any experiences with scalability?
> 
> Cheers
>  Piotr

Mulan (which you hopefully remember with great fondness :-) is currently running
around ten frontends, six of which produce data at any rate.  If I'm remembering
correctly, the event builder handles about 30-40MB/s.  You could probably ping Tim
Gorringe or his current postdoc Volodya Tishenko (tishenko@pa.uky.edu) if you want
more details.  Volodya solved a significant number of throughput related
bottlenecks in the year leading up to our 2006 run.

creating a frontend on MAC Sierra OSX 10
include the midas.h file and when compiling with XCode I get an error based on
this entry in the midas.h include

#if !defined(OS_IRIX) && !defined(OS_VMS) && !defined(OS_MSDOS) &&
!defined(OS_UNIX) && !defined(OS_VXWORKS) && !defined(OS_WINNT)
#error MIDAS cannot be used on this operating system
#endif


Perhaps I should not use Xcode?
Perhaps I won't need Midas.h?

The MIDAS system is running on my MAC but I need to add a very simple front end
for testing and I encounted this error.

One can collapse the side panel when looking at history pages with the button in
the top left, great! We want to see many pages so screen real estate is important

The issue we face is that when the page refreshes, the side panel expands. Can
we make the panel state more 'sticky'?

Many thanks
Joseph (ALPHA)

Version: 	2.1
Revision: 	Mon Mar 19 18:15:51 2018 -0700 - midas-2017-07-c-197-g61fbcd43-dirty
on branch feature/midas-2017-10

> > 
> > 
> > One can collapse the side panel when looking at history pages with the button in
> > the top left, great! We want to see many pages so screen real estate is important
> > 
> > The issue we face is that when the page refreshes, the side panel expands. Can
> > we make the panel state more 'sticky'?
> > 
> > Many thanks
> > Joseph (ALPHA)
> > 
> > Version: 	2.1
> > Revision: 	Mon Mar 19 18:15:51 2018 -0700 - midas-2017-07-c-197-g61fbcd43-dirty
> > on branch feature/midas-2017-10
> 
> Hi Joseph,
> 
> In principle a page refresh should now not be necessary, since pages should reload automatically 
> the contents which changes. If a custom page needs a reload, it is not well designed. If necessary, I 
> can explain the details. 
> 
> Anyhow I implemented your "stickyness" of the side panel in the last commit to the develop branch.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stefan

Hi Stefan,

I apologise for miss using the word refresh. The re-appearing sidebar was also seen with the automatic
reload, I have implemented your fix here and it now works great!

Thank you very much!
Joseph

Hi,

I have been looking at the 2019 workshop slides, I am interested in the C++ future of MIDAS. 

I am quite interested in using the object oriented 


ALPHA will start data taking in 2021